You are plainly ignorant of the basic implications of color neg sensitometry, Athiril. If so, and you are
happy with the results you are getting, that's fine with me. It does not change the objective facts which might be very useful to someone else. So you are perfectly welcome to ignore the following
analogy. Let's visualize three great volcanoes in the Hawaiian Islands: Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, joined at the base, and Haleakala off on Maui. From out at sea or in the air, as a panorama, these peaks
not only have their individual altitudes, but a distinct individual shape respective to one another, based upon sea level. Now lets imagine you "sink" Haleakala or underexpose it just by 500 hundred
feet in altitude. If you do this, you have not only changed the height of the island, but the entire profile and shape of Maui. It geometrically becomes something entirely different in relation to the
other two peaks of the Big Island. Suddenly, the Kona coffee growing zone on Maui is not aligned in
elevation the same zone on the Big Island, but with lava beds covered with thorn bushes. So when
one underexposes the yellow dye layer of a film, it is not just the reproduction of pure blue which is
affected, but of every other hue which need any yellow dye whatsoever. The colors get off, muddied
to some extent; and even if this is slight, it fails to achieve the full potential of the film to reproduce
the chroma in the scene.
I don't have a dog in this current fight, but I would like to point out that there are probably more people on APUG who scan than you realize. I shoot only film, dev and wet print my B&W, and scan both my B&W and color. I'm just not allowed to talk about that last bit. Doesn't mean I'm not doing it (just like a lot of other people here).
Originally Posted by Roger Cole
Don't misinterpret scanning not being talked about on APUG as nobody on APUG scans their color.
If this is happening to you in daylight as you insist it is you are underexposing your film or the processing of the film isn't good. You've already admitted the problem takes underexposure to cause, hence there in lies the clincher.
What is funny about what you say is that Ektar is worse than Portra 400. Which again, is very funny, since the yellow dye forming layer (blue sensitive) has a far steeper gradient in spectral sensitivity in Portra 400, which means less change in blue spectral width when underexposing.
Again, take a look at your exposure (and if necessary, the t-stop of your lens), processing.
Because honestly, it's ridiculous what you have been saying, again daylight film can't cope with daylight situations without filtration (since daylight is your definition of mixed lighting daylight and the shade created by it), where you say an 80A makes big difference in the print between ok and fantastic. That has a filter factor of 0.485 stops, and a MIRED of 18. Your film is obviously not getting enough exposure.
The vast majority of film shooters take their colour film to be processed at a lab or mini-lab. APUG is a highly popular site on the internet for film shooters and caters to a wide audience.
Last edited by Athiril; 09-03-2011 at 03:50 PM. Click to view previous post history.
I will not recognise it as a hybrid workflow, for all of time the majority of colour film shot has not been processed by the person shooting, but by a lab or minilab that they pay to have it done.
Originally Posted by Roger Cole
Sending it to a lab or minilab has always been the normal workflow for colour neg. Thus the normal workflow for the past several years has been to scan and do a laser wet print.
These new films are designed for this workflow in mind. FWIW I wasn't pointing the finger at you when referring to some people's attitudes on here that chase away new users.
I agree greatly that APUG should be more loose about discussing "Hybrid" work-flows. And yes there are probably alot of us scanning that are members of APUG but are too scared to share our knowledge on scanning because we're afraid we'll get scolded. I'm sure I could take my questions to DPUG, and I have, but the truth is that there just isn't as much help or folks on the site as there are here. So if the people are here, and the knowledge on the topic is here, then why can't we share it and talk about it?! After all, we're all still shooting film!
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I'd like to add too that for the last 5 years I've shot nothing but black and white and developed and printed myself. When it comes to black and white printing yes most of those photographers are printing optically in the darkroom. And there are many great printers in this forum with much knowledge. But I've recently begun shooting color. I would never dream of printing my own color. For me scanning makes sense. I would like to learn more about the hybrid process and I just hope APUG starts to let more and more of this discussion slide.
There isn't DPUG and Hybridphoto. DPUG isn't for analogue photography, it is for digital photography, plain and simple. Digital Photographers don't know anything about film. Why would you want advice from them for any kind of workflow involving film?
It is also yet another drop in the ocean of digital photography forums. There are another 100 much better digital photography forums to join out there, DPUG in that sense is useless and a waste of space.
You may as well send any new film users just getting some of their first cameras to a forum that will actually be friendly and helpful towards them instead. Though they will probably all stay there and not ever come back here, plus less likely to get interested in any other analogue workflow besides film there too.
Who knows how long optical printing is going to last, it's only a fractional proportion of film users. Nope, don't need to make people feel welcome and nurture their interests. Just make them uncomfortable and feel small for not measuring up to elitist standards.
Last edited by Athiril; 09-03-2011 at 04:01 PM. Click to view previous post history.
Exactly! So why can't we have some discussion on here from film users who have knowledge on scanning?? This would be the perfect site for hybrid talk.
Originally Posted by Athiril
The problem with DPUG that they don't keep the boat for film scanning world, and allowing digital [non film] loads to be there then you will not see much about scan topics.
I wish to have scan things here, but if it will never happen no problem, i can gather information from here and there and try my best, i can't do prints at all now because i don't have any enlarger or tools to print, no chemicals for printing and no papers for printing, if i go this route then i have to pay a lot which i did already for digital and scanner and something else.
I don't even think it needs to go that far, just none of this high and mighty attitude that turns people off. Telling people to go elsewhere, and taking an elitist snobby approach to everything. It's very judgemental.
Like the thread a while back about digital photography not being real photography.
I see so many people very eager to share sour grapes.
All of that is discouraging participation, and not encouraging participation. I'm fairly sure a lot of people have been turned off from optical printing for good from the current approach, some who would pick up the interest given time - even if it takes a few years for them to get into it.