Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,707   Posts: 1,548,544   Online: 1142
      
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    266

    A FEW C-41 QUESTIONS

    As I'm about to embark on my very first C-41 quest in 4x5, I was wondering about the merits and potential pitfalls of the equipment and chemistry I have at hand. I will be developing Fuji 160S in a Jobo 3010, preheated but hand-rolled. The chemistry I can get in reasonable quantities are Tetenal's. C-41 CD-LR 3-part developer,(code: 104155), bleach CN-16 N2, made specifically for Fuji (102660) and C-41 FX-VR, which is an universal C-41/E-6 fixer (102671). Stabilizer is also Tetenal's, but I don't know the code. Are these chemicals good enough for a negative that is to have the finest grain, as it's intended for enlargements? What should I be careful the most about hand-rolling the big Expert drum (starting temperature, agitation speed etc.)? Do I absolutely need starters with developer and bleach?
    Thanks.
    d_rookie

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    266
    Anyone?

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Europe, France
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    224
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    9
    Hi,

    I am just used to the Tetenal C41 2-bath kit (3 parts color developper, and 2 part s Bleach-fix), and the result works well for me, considering my rather unfrequent use of C41 in non-135 format film (I do mainly E6 in all formats).

    Colors are rendered correctly (as long as scanning can be used to check it), and the chemistry is quickly prepared and have a long shell life.

    Sorry to be of little help on your precise flavour of chemistry, I didn't know until now that Tetenal 4-baths C41 exists.

    About the 3010 expert drum you plan to use, I would be (maybe irrationally) afraid of uneven developping when handrolled, but it's just my two cents.

    For 4x5", you can try to get a 2520 drum, which can contains up to 6 4x5 sheets (with the 2502 reel), and is much smaller, but is more complicated when loading.

    I personnally use this setup, but with a Jobo ATL-1 processor.

    Regards,

    Raphael

  4. #4
    hpulley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,214
    Images
    75
    Is the Tetanal 3-part developer and separate bleach and fix powder or liquid concentrate? I too use the 3-bath kits because they're powder and thus can be mail ordered internationally.
    Harry Pulley - Visit the BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE FORUM

    Happiness is...

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    266
    They're all liquid. These are minilab chems, not "amateur" kits, whatever that means.

  6. #6
    hpulley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,214
    Images
    75
    Labs couldn't do powder, eh? Too bad. Won't be able to ship that over customs either.
    Harry Pulley - Visit the BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE FORUM

    Happiness is...

  7. #7
    Mike Wilde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Misissauaga Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,939
    Images
    29
    Read the data shets to determine the replensih rates. I am not familiar with the tetenal minilab chems you show an interest in, but they are a most capable firm.

    The data sheets should give you a clue as to how concentrated they are, and the level of dilution to make working tank solutions and replenisher solutions.

    Developer is the tricky one to work with without a starter.

    The developer starter emulates the chemistry that usually builds up from processing films, namely trace elements of bromide and iodide ions that are a side effect of developing the film silver to an elemental state, along with pH adjustments.

    I use a developer for b&w work, diy harveys 777 from the unblinking eye recipe that you 'season' by feeding it a couple of fogged films as it's first step after mixing.
    After the first batch, you save some the overflow from regular replenishment, and then when mixing a 'fresh' batch again, feed in the old overflow, rater than seasoning with fogged films.

    A similar strategy may work here, though tweaking pH to comply with the data sheet guidelines may also be required for in spec results.

    C-41 bleaching goes to completion, so I don't think you can over bleach c-41 with a too active bleach ala no starter.
    Read to see if the first tank solution is diluted replenisher with starter; dilute and skip the starter, and see what you get.

    Fix is fix. Most colour fixes mixed to tank solutions are not strong enough to worry about overfixing.
    With c-41 you don't want any silver left, so too strong is likely not a problem, although I have not ever heard of a fix starter.

    Using cheap drug store film deals for 35mm trails c. and shooting a macbeth chart will go a long way to get your processing tuned up before feeding it important 4xx5 shots.

    As to the processing, I would consider making a roller arrangment of some sort to try to keep the outside of the big drum in contact with a water bath, for the bulk of the 3:15 when temperature control is most important.
    my real name, imagine that.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    266
    Mike, thanks, quite an exhaustive answer!

    I can get the starter, so that's no problem. Also, I've checked the stabilizer and it doesn't contain formalin, but I can get lab-pure 37% formalin if necessary (or perharps recommended even with brand new films). As to the roller arrangement and constant temperature, could the lack thereof be balanced with drum preheat, two prewets and a slightly higher starting temperature of the developer?

  9. #9
    Mike Wilde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Misissauaga Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,939
    Images
    29
    'Drift though' is viable for colour print processing in tubes/drums.

    I presume it would work, but then again perhaps not as well as constant temperature. I know that colour negative film (c-41) (and reversal E-6) films are what are called integral tripacks.
    There are three acive image layers (as many as 19 layers actually if I recall corectly from my first read of Shanebrook's most interesting book 'Making Kodak film).

    The deepest colour layer may develop later that the top one, and if the temperature has changed at that later time, it may develop to a different end result density than that relative to the density of the top layer, which mostly finished its development perhaps before the deepest layer even got started. The msot telling test for this is to image a white to grey step wedge, and the see if there are colour shifts in the neg betweenn the white and black.

    Trials with a 35mm daylight tank on drift though versus water bath could lead to clues that might hlep you scale if a solution.

    Doing a few 'water runs' to evaluate the temperature issues with the larger drum.

    Adding a layer of insulation to the expert drum, like the silver bubbles that are sold to beef up insulation levels on storage type hot water tanks may be a viable option in this case.
    my real name, imagine that.



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin