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  1. #31

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    Really this is all about personal pride, not photography. The thing that was repeatedly hammered into me in my first three photography jobs was that no one else cares how you got the picture; they only care if you didn't. As soon as you decide where to stand to take a picture, you're messing with the image. Get over it.

    Technology is not the same as art, though it can help contribute to it. It's interesting to geeks, but not really relevant to the audience's enjoyment.

  2. #32

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    I find this thread quite frustrating. It should be in the ethics and philosohpy forum, not an enlarging forum. If OP thinks dodging and burning (not to mention the additional printing controls many of us use to achieve the visualization) are unethical manipulations, and aren't necessary, that's just a philosophy. It has nothing to do with making good enlargements, or any print for that matter.

    In addition, the notion that one shouldn't need printing controls if the negative is exposed and developed properly is totally incorrect, especially when the luminance range in the scene is substantially different than the paper range, which it very often is.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    I'm not saying that dodging and burning are wrong, but often unnecessary and done because some printers are saying that this is what a photographer should do to produce a good print. I would say the same about cropping, not wrong, but if you have considered original composure, why crop? Does a painter go out and make a painting and then when he/she returns to their studio, take a pair of scissors and cut a bit off one edge?
    Yes, painters do often crop paintings afterward. They may re-wrap the canvas with more of it folded over, or even cut it right off. I have a friend who paints landscape ''en plein air'' on wood panels so he can saw it down afterward. No representation of reality in any medium is ''pure'' IMHO.

  4. #34
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    I've never really understood this need to 'straight-jacket' oneself during the creative process. Not only do most of my prints require or lend themself to D&B, I will frequently take a photo in full knowledge that it will need manipulation; indeed, the dodging and burning are visualised at the taking stage.
    Norman is an island.Time and tide wait for Norman.

  5. #35
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Very good point.
    Dodging and Burning is a natural part of the process for some of us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blighty View Post
    I've never really understood this need to 'straight-jacket' oneself during the creative process. Not only do most of my prints require or lend themself to D&B, I will frequently take a photo in full knowledge that it will need manipulation; indeed, the dodging and burning are visualised at the taking stage.

  6. #36
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    A photogram is a photograph made entirely by d&b.

    Discuss
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  7. #37

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    cliveh perhaps you could post one or two of your photgraphs which are straight prints from the neg with no dodging or burning.

    Tony

  8. #38
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    I am not very adventurous with dodging and burning. Most of mine consists of burning in the sky (or is it dodging the rest of the scene?!).

    Most of the time I think that I should have done it with a graduated filter on the lens.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Most of the time I think that I should have done it with a graduated filter on the lens.
    Which leads to a question. Do people that oppose dodging and burning consider
    things like polarizers, color filters and GND filters kosher?

  10. #40

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    Unless we are talking about journalistic, forensic, scientific, or some specific fields where fidelity is the most important thing, photography is an art. It's all about personal expression. How can there be right and wrong? I do my best to capture the image the best way I can but if it requires cropping, dodging and burning, or any other dark room manipulations to express my vision, that's my vision and expression.

    I think, the very premise of this proposal is wrong.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

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