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  1. #31

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    I do agree in principle that it is possible to produce very good images without dodging and burning at all. That's what we all do if we use slide film for example (I realise that the original post refers to making a print, however).

    I think very few of my B&W prints have ever required no dodging and burning to produce a satisfying image, perhaps because D&B is part of the fun (for me) and something that I enjoy doing. On the other hand, most of my shots are taken impulsively in whatever light is available - I spend all day doing "head work" so photography is a way for me to unwind and let my hair down, whilst I still have any.

    The views/opinions/experiences of other people may of course be completely different. C'est la vie.
    Last edited by Edward_S; 01-09-2012 at 06:21 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Missing word

  2. #32

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    Really this is all about personal pride, not photography. The thing that was repeatedly hammered into me in my first three photography jobs was that no one else cares how you got the picture; they only care if you didn't. As soon as you decide where to stand to take a picture, you're messing with the image. Get over it.

    Technology is not the same as art, though it can help contribute to it. It's interesting to geeks, but not really relevant to the audience's enjoyment.

  3. #33

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    I find this thread quite frustrating. It should be in the ethics and philosohpy forum, not an enlarging forum. If OP thinks dodging and burning (not to mention the additional printing controls many of us use to achieve the visualization) are unethical manipulations, and aren't necessary, that's just a philosophy. It has nothing to do with making good enlargements, or any print for that matter.

    In addition, the notion that one shouldn't need printing controls if the negative is exposed and developed properly is totally incorrect, especially when the luminance range in the scene is substantially different than the paper range, which it very often is.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    I'm not saying that dodging and burning are wrong, but often unnecessary and done because some printers are saying that this is what a photographer should do to produce a good print. I would say the same about cropping, not wrong, but if you have considered original composure, why crop? Does a painter go out and make a painting and then when he/she returns to their studio, take a pair of scissors and cut a bit off one edge?
    Yes, painters do often crop paintings afterward. They may re-wrap the canvas with more of it folded over, or even cut it right off. I have a friend who paints landscape ''en plein air'' on wood panels so he can saw it down afterward. No representation of reality in any medium is ''pure'' IMHO.

  5. #35
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    I've never really understood this need to 'straight-jacket' oneself during the creative process. Not only do most of my prints require or lend themself to D&B, I will frequently take a photo in full knowledge that it will need manipulation; indeed, the dodging and burning are visualised at the taking stage.
    Norman is an island.Time and tide wait for Norman.

  6. #36
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Very good point.
    Dodging and Burning is a natural part of the process for some of us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blighty View Post
    I've never really understood this need to 'straight-jacket' oneself during the creative process. Not only do most of my prints require or lend themself to D&B, I will frequently take a photo in full knowledge that it will need manipulation; indeed, the dodging and burning are visualised at the taking stage.

  7. #37
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    A photogram is a photograph made entirely by d&b.

    Discuss
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  8. #38

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    cliveh perhaps you could post one or two of your photgraphs which are straight prints from the neg with no dodging or burning.

    Tony

  9. #39
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    I am not very adventurous with dodging and burning. Most of mine consists of burning in the sky (or is it dodging the rest of the scene?!).

    Most of the time I think that I should have done it with a graduated filter on the lens.


    Steve.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Most of the time I think that I should have done it with a graduated filter on the lens.
    Which leads to a question. Do people that oppose dodging and burning consider
    things like polarizers, color filters and GND filters kosher?

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