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Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO
My aspiration of late is to become more Bohemian; "a person with artistic or intellectual tendencies, who lives and acts with no regard for conventional rules of behavior."
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 Originally Posted by markbarendt
Why?
If you use a #2 filter to start then the next filter is the next grade.
If you use no filter, then find you need to go up or down a grade, what filter do you pick, and what is the exposure change?
(If you know the answer to that - or have worked it out - great. But this used to bug me... I didn't really know how far the next step or what exposure it would take.)
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Originally Posted by Bill Burk
If you use a #2 filter to start then the next filter is the next grade.
If you use no filter, then find you need to go up or down a grade, what filter do you pick, and what is the exposure change?
(If you know the answer to that - or have worked it out - great. But this used to bug me... I didn't really know how far the next step or what exposure it would take.)
Actually use VC paper and the recommendations included with the paper.
Color head on the enlarger so I can dial in whatever grade I please.
I use a Beseler PM2L to set exposure time, I can actually watch the needle move from the normal time to the new time as I dial in the filters.
The PM2L's biggest problem in finding the time is me. 
Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO
My aspiration of late is to become more Bohemian; "a person with artistic or intellectual tendencies, who lives and acts with no regard for conventional rules of behavior."
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Originally Posted by Bill Burk
If you use a #2 filter to start then the next filter is the next grade.
If you use no filter, then find you need to go up or down a grade, what filter do you pick, and what is the exposure change?
(If you know the answer to that - or have worked it out - great. But this used to bug me... I didn't really know how far the next step or what exposure it would take.)
Bill has it right.
Also, when you use the #2 filter for an exposure, and then decide that a #2.5 filter would be better, you will be able to use an exposure time with the #2.5 filter that is either the same or very close to the same as the exposure time you used with the #2 filter.
It also helps to systemize your process - if you have a workflow that always deals with contrast filtration, you will be much less likely to forget to use the filtration when you mean to do so.
Matt
“Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”
Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2
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Originally Posted by Bill Burk
If you use a #2 filter to start then the next filter is the next grade.
Pardon me if I misunderstand your meaning, but it seems you are suggesing that the filter # is equal to a contrast grade. There is no real correlation between a single VC filter and an ISO Range Number. Generally, the higher the filter #, then the higher the apparent contrast. But, it is possible for two filters to produce the same, or very near the same contrast i.e., ISO Range Number, given the particular paper, light source, and developer.
"I find it always necessary to stress that we cannot equate brilliance with contrast."
---AA (The Print)
".....in printing we are trying to breathe expressive life into the image,.....this raises intangible issues that do not yield to formulas or measurement."
---AA (The Print)
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My thoughts were not to use a #2 filter 'specifically' or to rely on the grades being ANSI.
I just think it would be a good idea to use a filter (or filtration) instead of unfiltered so that you don't have to figure out the next step.
Another thought. It might be good to make first round tests on whole filter number jumps instead of half filters.
It goes back to the f/stop time idea that you work up tests in dramatic increments so you can see the potential and know your direction. Then refine it once you know it has to be in-between.
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Originally Posted by Bill Burk
My thoughts were not to use a #2 filter 'specifically' or to rely on the grades being ANSI.
I just think it would be a good idea to use a filter (or filtration) instead of unfiltered so that you don't have to figure out the next step.
Another thought. It might be good to make first round tests on whole filter number jumps instead of half filters.
Thanks for the clarification.
"I find it always necessary to stress that we cannot equate brilliance with contrast."
---AA (The Print)
".....in printing we are trying to breathe expressive life into the image,.....this raises intangible issues that do not yield to formulas or measurement."
---AA (The Print)
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Originally Posted by Bill Burk
My thoughts were not to use a #2 filter 'specifically' or to rely on the grades being ANSI.
I just think it would be a good idea to use a filter (or filtration) instead of unfiltered so that you don't have to figure out the next step.
Good point.
I referred to using a #2 filter because most likely that will give contrast that is most similar to the unfiltered exposure, and therefore would fit well with the rest of the suggested procedure I was responding to.
But another filter or filter setting can also be made to work.
Matt
“Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”
Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2
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Originally Posted by Bill Burk
... and know your direction. ...
I must say that this is a challenge, the direction isn't necessarily intuitive. It seems to me to be an art, not a science.
Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO
My aspiration of late is to become more Bohemian; "a person with artistic or intellectual tendencies, who lives and acts with no regard for conventional rules of behavior."
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Originally Posted by markbarendt
I must say that this is a challenge, the direction isn't necessarily intuitive. It seems to me to be an art, not a science.
Ever try approaching it from just one direction, build the contrast from a purposely low level till you reach the preferred level?
"I find it always necessary to stress that we cannot equate brilliance with contrast."
---AA (The Print)
".....in printing we are trying to breathe expressive life into the image,.....this raises intangible issues that do not yield to formulas or measurement."
---AA (The Print)
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