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  1. #21

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    Similar to Neil I really don't like the 35mm ratio so I tend to compose my pictures for printing more often than not to the 8"x10" format. As for borders as already said in the classroom give the teachers what they want to top up your marks, but outside do anything you want. Even if that means printing the same picture twice, once for the classroom and once for yourself

  2. #22

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    so do you stuff up a print (balance, tonal representation of specific objects) just to have non white edges... seems weird to me. Maybe you should never compose such a shot in the first place! I personally hate obvious edge burns, etc Maybe print borderless...

  3. #23

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    Honestly, I can see the prof's point. Even if he did not make it very clear. This might clear it up

    When printing (enlarging) you have to hold the paper down and this is where you get the borders. Let's say that you are taking a picture of the hood of a black and white car. The top half of the frame will be white and the bottom will be black. On the bottom half of the final image there is a clear and distinct border on the top where you made sure to keep that new car white there is no border. This creates an issue where the prints seems unbalanced and people start looking for the border that has disappeared half way up the frame. The same issue arises if you are printing the same picture with black borders. If you are printing full frame with the film edge (which I just think looks cool) the problem is solved. If you are trimming the prints then trim the border and no one cares. If you have to have borders, your prof feels you need to print in a manner that would not leave the viewer looking for a border. You need a line of somesort to keep the viewer in the picture. Those border lines are just as important as the window on a mat. If you are dry mounting the print then the small edge created by the edge of the paper on top of the matt creates the line. The viewer sees them and is thus kept inside the picture instead of wondering off. Now there is the case of the Brett Weston print Eric posted. In this case the stark whites do not dominate any one edge of the print so the viewer percieves the border as continuing because they see it picked up by the black that is very close to the white and which dominates the scene.

    This is the explanation given by the prof of the last photo class I took. It made sense to me then as it does now. Of course there are times when this does not apply and as he said, at the time, there is no reason to make the grey so blatant that it kills the white. Just do it enough to make the paper maybe .5 zones above paper white. It will be there and people will respond to it.

    Hope this helps
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  4. #24
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    Ralph and mrcallow,

    Thanks for the answers to my question. I appreciate it!

    Kent
    Max Power, he's the man who's name you'd love to touch! But you mustn't touch! His name sounds good in your ear, but when you say it, you mustn't fear! 'Cause his name can be said by anyone!

  5. #25
    lee
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    a couple of things here, Rule 1 is the teacher is correct Rule 2 is see Rule 1. the other thing is to pay attention to the edges of the negative when making the initial shot. I think he/she is wanting you to do that for now. One other thing that you can do is to cut a mat board just smaller than the print and use the scrap board to create your own border. Put the paper in the easel and lay the scrap on top of the paper and flush up against one corner. Now make a gross over-exposure (like f5.6 at 60 seconds). This will introduce a black line on two sides of the printing paper. Move the scrap to the opposite corner (diagonal) and repete the exposure. Now remove the scrap and make your print. Viola, you have a black line around the print. It should drive your instructor somewhat crazy. The weight of the black line can be changed by how you big or small you cut the mat hole.

    lee\c

  6. #26
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    I personally prefer to not have white areas in a print that are along the border. I don't mind my eye wandering close to the border, but I prefer it to be led to the interior, so to speak. But, as in all things, there are always exceptions to the rule, and I never have produced a photograph the qualifies as such.

  7. #27
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    Just to clarify in the event it wasn't obvious, SCOFF (the School of Full Framers) is a fictive organization invented by my strange sense of humor. Thus, it's not likely that a Google search would turn up an agenda for their next meeting. :o
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbarker
    Just to clarify in the event it wasn't obvious, SCOFF (the School of Full Framers) is a fictive organization invented by my strange sense of humor. Thus, it's not likely that a Google search would turn up an agenda for their next meeting. :o

    What!?!?! Then who did I just send that check to!?!?!
    Gear: Camera, Brain, Light.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sjixxxy
    What!?!?! Then who did I just send that check to!?!?!
    Uh-oh. You probably sent the check to the other SCOFF - "Sleazy Company Off-ripping Fine Fotografers". Darn, I hate it when that happens.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  10. #30
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    It's hard to generalize since the right answer varies with the subject of the image. But I usually try to achieve a very slight tonal separation between highlights at the edge of the frame and the border so as to provide differentiation between subject and border. I have no problem with highlights within the image that are approximately blank paper white unless they are especially large in which case they dominate the image.

    Keep in mind that the eye goes to the brightest highlights in the image - for the print to be strong, those highlights need to convey information. If they are blank white because they are blown out (overexposed), then they will detract from the image. But if they are blank white because that's what they were (eg, light sources in a night exposure), then blank white is legitimate.

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