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  1. #21
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    You only need one developer if you are flashing during processing. IDK what anyone else may do, but the traditional method uses only one developer. Some people may use 2 developers to get special add on effects, but that is not necessary when you are starting out. You should try the basics first.

    PE

  2. #22

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    Tkamiya: Why don't you try it the simple way first and proceed from there. I'm not sure why you'd have to use a Metol-only developer, other than if you wanted development to proceed more slowly or wanted a different image color or lower contrast. Just use your standard Dektol (Metol-Hydroquinone) or Warmtone or whatever else you have and flash 3/4 of the way through as PE suggested. I'll check a book later but I don't recall there being any special requirements with respect to developers etc. to get this to work. I'm not saying there wouldn't be differences with different developers, papers and techniques, but why not just try it using the materials you have and see what happens. Experiment a little, and then go from there into the more involved ways of doing this, such as those Bob is describing. There are likely lots of different ways of getting Sabattier effects, with all sorts of degrees, nuances and subtelties.

  3. #23

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    Michael,

    I'd rather prefer using what I already have. However, all the docs refereed to in this thread leads me to Metol only developers. People who used Dektol deliberately degraded it by passing air or nearly exhausted it before using it for this purpose. I further read using Dektol this way leads to unreliable and un-reproducible results. The first link provided in this thread was particularly interesting as it shows how this Metol only developer was developed.

    This is why I'm taking this route.

    (yes, this is getting expensive!)
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  4. #24
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    If you read the article linked about, references to first and second developers and development refer only to the development before flashing (first) and after (second) even though they are usually the same developer and usually in the same tray. In fact he specifically recommends against removing the print to flash it.

  5. #25

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    I'll just setup so that I can use my second enlarger as "flasher" then. (don't worry, I'm fully aware of water-electricity thing)
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    Michael,

    I'd rather prefer using what I already have. However, all the docs refereed to in this thread leads me to Metol only developers. People who used Dektol deliberately degraded it by passing air or nearly exhausted it before using it for this purpose. I further read using Dektol this way leads to unreliable and un-reproducible results. The first link provided in this thread was particularly interesting as it shows how this Metol only developer was developed.

    This is why I'm taking this route.

    (yes, this is getting expensive!)
    I guess the rationale for low sulfite, Metol-only is to maximize edge effects/bromide sensitivity.
    Last edited by Michael R 1974; 05-30-2012 at 08:21 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Redo

  7. #27

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    Michael,

    Please see post #8 where Bob basically told me to not bother with Dektol.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  8. #28

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    This is interesting....

    I just priced out the cost of chemicals buying from B&H (which sells Photographer's formulary stuff) and it came out to about $50 for tens of gallons worth of the developer mentioned in the note.

    So this is definitely a "GO".

    I'm sure there are cheaper way of getting raw ingredients but for small qty, this is easier. (and still cheaper)

    Is this formula expected to last a while in tightly capped bottles? Or is this basically mix what you use today kind of thing?
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  9. #29
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    Guys;

    If you use the same developer for pre and post flash, then the image tone is the same. If you use 2 developers, the image tone is different depending on what developer you use. Now, for a beginner, it is best to start simple, but for an advanced user, then more complex methods is useful.

    If you wish to leave your conversation, please let me know as this is otherwise a waste of my time.

    PE

  10. #30
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    I use two developers for more toning effects.. As stated in one of my earlier posts the second developer is the same as the first.
    But it is charged with additional Potassium Bromide . By doing this I find that when I duo tone or tri tone I get more colours.

    For negatives I use the single developer but for print my second developer has an addition of 450 grams of Potassium Bromide.

    Yes , put in the second developer then flash.. takes about 5 seconds.. You can keep in one tray and you will get nice results... just think of it like South Carolina ribs vs Texas ribs... just a different way to get something nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    I am a bit confused....

    All articles talk about the first developer and the second developer. Are these the same developer with Metol? (I think they are?)

    Also, is it that develop in first dev, put it in the second dev, FLASH? Then why two trays? Can I not just keep it in the same solution, bring it up to the surface and FLASH half way through the process?

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