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  1. #51
    Bertil's Avatar
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    tkamiya, I think Brians advise to work with with the scanned negative is very useful, I also do that all the time. It gives a good idea if the negative is worth printing; the histogram could be used as a hint as to what kind of negative you have; if you need to make such sofisticated adjustments in the editing program in order to get the print you are after, adjustments that is not (normally) available in the drakroom, give it up and take another negative; keeping track of what you do in the editing program gives you good information on what to do in the darkroom. The scanning and editing is a marvellous tool for the analog printer, as far as I can judge.

    A little advise that I find very useful, particularly as to the problem of judging the dry down affect. In most cases the dry down effect my be bad on the brilliance of the highlight. When I'm unsure about the dry down effect I don't selen tone the print before I can inspect the dry print. If the higlight has lost some of its brilliance (and perhaps also some middle tone has gone a little bit too dark, perhaps also some shadow detail is gone but hiding in the dark), I think I have saved many prints from the trash by using Farmers reducer (1 part of A and 2-3 parts B, perhaps also some after fixing), a pencil and carefully ligthen up some parts that has gone wrong. Not untill I have the dry print as want it (as close as possible as the wet print, which unfortunately always looks nicer!) do I use the selen toner which normally just deepens the darks and in that way add something to the contrast. At least I use a lot of adjustment with Farmer also before drying - burning some part for the dark and middle tones may ruin some highlights that Farmer then can save. At least this works quite nice for me and saves a lot of prints from the trash.
    /Bertil

  2. #52
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Please .. I beg you do not wake him..
    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    So.... who IS Dinesh, again??

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post
    Sorry if I made it sound like it should be easy, or suggested following me down the path to lower standards. It's an idea I have to produce work "not as good as" the best photographers printing Silver Gelatin, because it seems like an idea that fits me.

    tkamiya, I have some negatives that defy printing that I have mentally "condemned" as lessons learned. If I were to pursue printing them again I could easily finish off a pack of paper and still be dissatisfied. Last week I deliberately skipped over printing the ice field. I still haven't made the texture of ice come out the way I want it. Yes it "begs" to be white, but my mind sees the grit. But I do have a river that I printed too light, and it looks like ice. I am going to use that failed print as my reference when I pick up the ice field picture again...


    Found a quote from Ernst Haas 1970... "An artist for me is a man who can build his own vision, his own world, and force others to live with this vision."
    Bill, I wasn't referring to your post in particular. It's just that I find in general on APUG there is so little focus on printing skill and effort. There is this recurring theme - that it shouldn't be all that difficult to make great prints from good negatives, that you should only have to look at a work print for a few seconds in order to decide what to change or what to do next. It just doesn't always go that way.

  4. #54
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    sometimesbut it usually passes quickly sfter an hour or two with photoshop!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  5. #55
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    It does in my darkroom , maybe not yours , but believe me it is a fact and know many that work that way.

    I understand the learning curve, trials and errors, but my posts refer to that magic moment in your printing life where it does become easy and you can loosen up and make prints.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Bill, I wasn't referring to your post in particular. It's just that I find in general on APUG there is so little focus on printing skill and effort. There is this recurring theme - that it shouldn't be all that difficult to make great prints from good negatives, that you should only have to look at a work print for a few seconds in order to decide what to change or what to do next. It just doesn't always go that way.

  6. #56

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    Not doubting how it goes in your darkroom, Bob. I'm just saying there are different kinds of images, and also different kinds of personalities. Given the same level of technical skill and experience, some people just take longer to make decisions (for example). There are great printers who work in all sorts of different ways. It's the same with painters, musicians and on and on.

  7. #57

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    I am waiting for a moment for this printing stuff to become easy and a second nature....

    Are we there yet? How about now?
    NOPE!
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  8. #58
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I will give you that Michael.

    The OP makes some pretty damm fine images right now , my experience and it can be different from others just tells me that he is really close to where he should be.
    I watched MAS makes some prints here in my darkroom during the first APUG conference and boy did he make it simple.
    I have watched Bill Schwab print here also and he is surprising quick in his decision making, same goes for Mr G .
    Though I have tremendous respect for Tim Rudman and his printing... the twenty minute test strips were IMO staggering painful to watch.


    I guess I am not trying to tell the OP to speed up, dumb down, but basically be more confident and hang a few prints for feedback or he may never get out of the darkroom and we will have to send in a squad to drag him out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Not doubting how it goes in your darkroom, Bob. I'm just saying there are different kinds of images, and also different kinds of personalities. Given the same level of technical skill and experience, some people just take longer to make decisions (for example). There are great printers who work in all sorts of different ways. It's the same with painters, musicians and on and on.

  9. #59

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    Bob,

    I have a question.... I actually tried this fast decision making thing earlier in my darkroom dwelling carrier. Make a print, evaluate while still in liquid, discard. Try again.... discard. As I got close, added a washing and drying (with hair dryer) step. Discard. Repat.

    This kind of working habbit worked with RC but not with FB. Quick drying gets it close but the result is yet different from slow complete drying.

    What I ended up was, lots of wasted paper. Worse, I found, the next day, I actually liked what I trashed. Those were closer to what I wanted than those I kept as "best of the day".

    That's when I adopted my current printing style where I establish the base exposure first and print one then let it dry completely - then evaluate the next day. I basically repeat this every darkroom session. I only print one frame at a time, too. Admittedly, it works. After 2 months of frustrating time and half a box of paper, I get to where I find it's close enough that further printing won't improve it. But it is SO DARN SLOW!

    I guess my problem is not being evaluate accurately enough without completely drying it.

    How do you suggest I improve on this aspect?
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  10. #60
    henk@apug's Avatar
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    I too use a microwave to dry and judge fiber print teststrips. Quick (1,5 min), No surprises afterwards.



 

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