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  1. #21
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Ian and Matt

    I feel very strongly about the approach at the enlarger... I do agree that knowing the approach as a teaching tool in books is appropriate and valuable.

    FWIW .. on very large projects that I sometimes work on I scan the work prints and put small colour prints into a very large sketch book. I keep track of the editions , who purchased , and in one of my clients case beside the picture I write things like, when asked to print this image again , insist on printing the whole edition as this image is extremely hard , and I do not want to do a one off print again of this image.
    Or I will put down things like easy print. or hard print.

    but never do I make dodge and burn lines as that should be second nature for me at this point.

    I need to center myself on the enlarger , have my tools within reach and just get crackin.

  2. #22
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I define a top end printer as one who makes their sole income from printmaking.
    I also know there are many top end printers who do not , some of them here , but my experience/comments are biased to the printers who work for others.


    Quote Originally Posted by ROL View Post
    Well, yes and no. Except for the absurd notion that I would qualify (haven't taken the exams yet) as a "top end printer", I make printing records only for my own use, mainly for the purpose of repeatability and scaling up of enlargements. But, true enough, they are not gospel, but mere guides to ease the printing of a previously printed negative. Every day is a new "performance" – the charm of hand made analog printing.

  3. #23
    jp80874's Avatar
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    At the Louisville, KY View Camera Conference (about 2007 or 8) Alan Ross gave a lecture/workshop on how he has worked with twenty Ansel Adams images, making 80,000 prints as of that date, using print maps. He showed examples of how he set these up so he could repeatably make those twenty images as Ansel did. He now works with Photoshop and prints digitally.

    You might check through his website to see if he published anything that would satisfy your needs. http://www.alanrossphotography.com/ansel-adams/

    John Powers
    "If you want to be famous, you must do something more badly than anybody in the entire world." Miroslav Tichı

  4. #24
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    After 80000 prints John I would think he would remember how to make the prints... Just saying
    Quote Originally Posted by jp80874 View Post
    At the Louisville, KY View Camera Conference (about 2007 or 8) Alan Ross gave a lecture/workshop on how he has worked with twenty Ansel Adams images, making 80,000 prints as of that date, using print maps. He showed examples of how he set these up so he could repeatably make those twenty images as Ansel did. He now works with Photoshop and prints digitally.

    You might check through his website to see if he published anything that would satisfy your needs. http://www.alanrossphotography.com/ansel-adams/

    John Powers

  5. #25
    jp80874's Avatar
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    Maybe I have misunderstood the term, “printmap.”
    As I understood at the conference, and my 72 year old brain is trying to remember, Alan Ross had constructed an overlay for each of the twenty pictures that let more or less light go through in various areas, that would then achieve the AA look. How much of an over all burn he did before this and how much dancing around with dodging tools he did beyond this I don’t remember. The impression I got was there was little of the latter.

    He then said that with Photoshop this was no longer necessary. At that point I phased out thinking of the famous AA quote that the negative was the score and the print was the performance. It all felt like a cheap record after the revelation of the process.

    John P.
    "If you want to be famous, you must do something more badly than anybody in the entire world." Miroslav Tichı

  6. #26
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  7. #27

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    Don't worry Ralph, Its on my Christmas list.

  8. #28

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    It doesn't sound arrogant to me at all, just a different approach. Maybe not that different in the end. The more I think about it I guess I don't really need my written instructions as much as I think I do. But in some cases there may be quite a bit of repetitive testing involved (to get just the right amount of detail into a lightbulb, for example - overly fussy, I admit) and I like to have a "head start" on certain elements the next time I print the image.

    It just sounds to me like your process is much more "fluid" than mine. I can't really work that way. It's simply not my nature. Hopefully the end result is the same - a great print, one that is truly satisfying. I think there are different ways of getting there.

    As an aside, I'd like to see some of your work one day, and maybe show some of my own prints. Actual prints, not crap scans.

    Sorry if this thread got kind of hijacked, but it's an interesting discussion. I wish we had more printing threads. It's my favourite part of the process.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Michael

    I know what I am going to say will sound arrogant or flippant.

    But in the years I have been printing I have never made a print map.. I don't need one, it was not the way I was taught to print.
    I use a dodging tool as the weapon of mass destruction/creative manipulation, with minimal burn. What needs to be done is obvious the moment the first test print comes out.. I cannot think of one thing I would need to be reminded about.

    I have worked with hundreds of different printers in my career who were taught the same way, no print maps.

    Print maps are in books, that I know, but to think HCB , Towell, Sander, Brassai, Kertez printers followed a map to me does not ring true.
    I do not think Helmut Newtons printer would put up with that. Either the printer knew how to make an individual photographers work sing or he/she did not. There are many photographers who are good printmakers, but there are many more who are not. Bill Jay and a Magnum photographer wrote a nice little book about this very topic.
    Actually when I see reference to photographers talking this nonsense I just shrug my shoulders and smile, as the amount of photographers who get fired by printers far outweigh the amount of printers who get fired by photographers.. Just the nature of the industry.
    I have pointedly not printed for any photographers work that has been done by other printmakers, it just is not what I want to ever do.
    I prefer to walk into a darkroom with a clean slate and do the best I can and hope the photographer likes my work. I started Silver Shack in 1991 and I am still walking into a darkroom making prints so I must be doing something right.

    The idea I am trying to get across is simple, and I hope not overbearing, but I believe is very important for young printers or young to printing , understand including the OP that use your eyes and make the time at the enlarger as easy as you can, without complicating things.

    for example :lets talk about your own work the *Hallway Series* I have seen posted online ( the prints on screen look very good, but I imagine tough to accomplish), from neg's you have processed, contacted and work printed and I assume you have done quite a few, over time it becomes obvious to you what to do in the printmaking stage. I cannot imagine that the moment you see your first test print you need to look at a map to know where to go next. true/untrue?

    So I am talking about the physical moments of printmaking, sure you may have mapped out in your mind where you want your highlights and shadows density's to be, but to think you need to look off to a set of notes to tell you what to do next just does not sound logical to me.

    I have worked with so many various negatives, that just looking at the negative, gives me the starting points, after my first test print, full sheet, and looking at the easel while I print I know where I am going. If an area needs dodging or burning, I do not need a map to tell me where to go, I use my eyes, and I believe you work the same way. true/untrue? sounds like a good poll question.


    To answer your question, I do not need a print plan as there never was one in the first place.
    Yes there are many good books that go into that aspect of learning and probably valuable to some, but I think pretty dam obvious to anyone spending enough time in front of an enlarger.
    As I write this I am chuckling to myself thinking of Fred Picker and the famous 5x7 master print series that if you were lucky enough to get one and put it up in your darkroom you would see the light and become the next great printer.
    Well I fell for this one, and when I got the print, which was by far the worst rendition of snow and water and ice, this Canadian has ever seen I concluded that the only way to make good prints was to look, see what needs to be darker, what needs to be lighter, is the overall density/contrast ok, and make the print.

    Bob

  9. #29
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Michael

    You are exactly right about seeing the prints and not scans... but I can tell by your subject matter and approach that they are difficult prints. But I do believe
    that after your testing, making a bunch of them , going into the darkroom now is more instinctive or *fluid* .


    I have a show with 40 silver prints in Springfield Mass for a month opening October 20 . Then I have the work going out to Calgary in Feb for a month for the Exposure festival. *calgary's version of contact* I would love to show in Montreal but I have zero connections in your neck of the woods.

    Right now I am on a mission to show as much of my work as possible so I have built a rather large portfolio to mimic the larger print show and I am shipping it around to different cities hoping some gallery curator's like the work enough to give me a show.
    I believe this is the only way to get your work known and appreciated, by having the work ready at a moments notice to show.

    I took off all forums other than the darkroom and film here on APUG , along with the four people I put on Ignore over 8 years. As I agree the best threads
    are the ones about printing , so when I open up APUG the pages of new posts are very limited.

    Bob

  10. #30
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    i strongly second the suggestion bout the bartlett book, great examples and ow they were printed, but he was going a bit over the top in some cases. nevertheless,a great application of print maps, more practical than the ansel adms book.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

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