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  1. #31

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    I'm heading into my darkroom. See you guys later in few hours.....
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  2. #32

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    I basically abandoned my previous printing chart and started anew with 11x14 (my current project)

    Took 8x10s and cut them up. (same brand, same type, same paper) Got 3 test strips each and tested key areas. Once satisfied with parts, printed 11x14. Printed 3 of them with minor adjustments each. They are drying now.

    I still cannot avoid needing to print full size prints and re-evaluate and re-adjust.

    I'll have to wait until these are completely dry and redo them if necessary.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  3. #33

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    It's dry and I don't like 'em! That's it! I'm quitting photography!! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

    It's so frustrating when I actually get to print what I wanted and get it almost exactly how I wanted it - only to find out it really doesn't work.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  4. #34
    eddie's Avatar
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    Are you factoring in dry down?

  5. #35

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    He wanted it 100% perfect!
    A photo amateur
    Sinar P2/F2/Nikon F100/Bronica ETRSi/GS/Saunders 4550XLG/Jobo CPP2/CPE+/Colorline 7000

  6. #36
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    On small prints you are dealing with macro tonal relationships. As the print size increases you start to deal with micro tonal relationships. (This is in relation to the negative, not the print.) Remember, you are enlarging the space between the grain. In a small print the space is imperceptible. As the print gets larger the space between the grain starts to overwhelm the grain. This is why you need to print "lighter and with more contrast".

    To understand this, make a small print then elevate your enlarger all the way up and print a detail of the image. Compare the structure of the two and you should see what I am talking about.

    I think one problem you are having is that you want the larger print to match perfectly to the smaller print, but it will never happen. If you want to make big prints, then just make the big prints. No one except you will ever hold the small print next to the big print!

    The other thing I would suggest is that you evaluate prints at viewing distances. Holding a 20" print in your hand will disappoint you from the start if you are not used to it..

    Hope that helps. I hope it makes sense too. It is late as I write this.

  7. #37
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    This is a very informative thread and nice to see so much discussion with the intent to share knowledge and help out.
    I like some of the suggestions, but what I have been doing is simply making test strips and notes. Even though I do make some notes, it seems to resonate that I'm going to start from scratch regardless. But at least they give me some data that I would not otherwise have to begin the process again.
    I also feel that one can become somewhat accustom to a particular paper, I for instance find the new Art 300 somewhat slower than Ilford's regular fibre paper. I also like their warm-tone and really like Ilfobrom Galerie. And then there is the toning to consider, but that's another thread I suppose.
    Follow the Light John 8:12
    ~~~PhotoBob

  8. #38
    Rafal Lukawiecki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoBob View Post
    I like some of the suggestions, but what I have been doing is simply making test strips and notes. Even though I do make some notes, it seems to resonate that I'm going to start from scratch regardless. But at least they give me some data that I would not otherwise have to begin the process again.
    Like PhotoBob, I have also found that notes are helpful, especially a drawing of a burning and dodging plan, which I prefer to annotate in terms of f/stop (or percentage) exposure and grade adjustments. It works very well session-to-session for me, when working in the same format. It can help in changing formats, too, but it is not sufficient in that case. It is not quite like starting from scratch for me, but perhaps 30% of the work, when making a significant print size change.
    Rafal Lukawiecki
    See rafal.net | Read rafal.net/articles

  9. #39

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    The complaint was pretty non-specific. Sometimes big prints just don't look as good as small ones, even when perfect. Sometimes they look better. Sometimes you just need more practice.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nworth View Post
    The complaint was pretty non-specific. Sometimes big prints just don't look as good as small ones, even when perfect. Sometimes they look better. Sometimes you just need more practice.
    Funny, I started dividing my negative storage by intended print size because of this exact issue. Sometimes I'll proof some images and say "not a good picture" only to find out it needed to be printed large, and then some the opposite, where I start large and move smaller.

    It sounds like your technique is improving, tk, but perhaps a re-visioning of the images themselves is in order.

    I spoke to a very accomplished darkroom and PT/PD printer here in town and one gem of advice: when you're in the taking stage of making a photograph, imagine the size you wish it to be printed and your framing, filters, etc will be easier to sort out. There isn't one composition fits all sizes approach. So now when I look at a scene and am selecting my gear I think "what size will this be printed?" and hopefully adjust accordingly.
    K.S. Klain

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