Print densities ?

[Firestarter]

Is there a standard or recommended minimum density above paper base white where highlight tones should be placed ?

[CPorter]

I take the question you ask to be about determining the print exposure time. But there is no density that can be put on the paper "above" paper base white------that's why it is called paper base white. Minimum density has to be some amount of density registered on the paper below paper base white.

I determine the print exposure time based off of the important highlight in the negative that should retain some sense of texture on the print surface, about a Zone VIII area or "full" texture in the highlights around a Zone VII area.

[bernard_L]

OP meant paper reflection density. His question was properly formulated.

To answer the question: it depends;/). Contrast and tone separation go down as one moves down the toe of the paper (towards paper-base white). So, to maintain a mnimum of separation ("brilliance") in the highlights, you may want expose the print enough to place the whitest parts (densest negative) above paper white. Except possibly specular highlights.

[Firestarter]

Yes you are quite correct . When I said above I guess I meant below. I was thinking in numbers, 0.8, 0.10 etc.

[ic-racer]

Is there a standard or recommended minimum density above paper base white where highlight tones should be placed ?

No.

[Bill Burk]

Yes you are quite correct . When I said above I guess I meant below. I was thinking in numbers, 0.8, 0.10 etc.

Well, Yes and No.

Here is a thread where the numbers are explained: 0.04 and 90%. Pretty easy to remember.

Yes... Those are the standard black and white numbers that you take... When you measure what the paper can do.

Here's a post where CPorter explained it...

http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=1105550

No... You don't rely on those numbers when printing. Sure you can think of it like you picked the right paper grade when your Zone VIII exposures are at 0.04 white and your Zone II is down around 90% black. But that is just a starting point, a point of departure.

You will always forget about the standards and do what it takes to make the print look good to you.

Make several variations and line them up, show them to friends and family.

Scientists (Loyd Jones) proved people are consistent judges and positive in their choice of what looks best when given a choice.

So even after they came out with numbers and facts, the final conclusions were a concession that, in the end, it's how it looks that matters.

[Bob Carnie]

I use numbers for digital silver prints but don't for enlarger prints. I find L values of 94 for highlight with slight detail, L value of 6 for shadow with detail.

on the enlarger

If I am printing a scene with lots of blank white in close to the edge, like a white blank sky, a good visueal measuring device for me is the point where I can see the easel blades defined from the white blank sky... the blades will show as paper white and be obvious in the print... the more defined you see the blades the more exposure you are putting on the paper.

[Firestarter]

Thanks for the input so far.

What are the average densities of paper whites ?

[Firestarter]

I measured Ilford MGIV FB and I am getting 0.04 for base white, does that sound about right ? just want to confirm my densitometer is in the ballpark.

[RalphLambrecht]

the ofirst who attempted to create a print density standard to my knowledge was minor white, but i have a recommendation for you: