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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jon koss
    Does this mean that my 30 years of max black testing for Minox rollfilm has been for nought? ... I thought I had this down but now I am totally confused!
    j
    Hey Jon, if you've been "max black testing" the same film for 30 years, maybe you're doing something wrong. Why not start over? Who knows, maybe you'll get it right this time!

    It's all good. A sheet, a frame, whatever...

  2. #32
    djklmnop's Avatar
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    Jeezuz Christ! You guys really do make photography harder than it needs to be.

    FB+F = Zone 0

    When you do film testing to determine your Exposure Index and Development Time for Highlights, your FB+F is your "guide". Without it, you won't have a means of validating your other zones. In the darkroom you simply print for maximum black on the FB+F frame. Once you have found the time for maximum black, that means that all other zones should line up as well given that the negative has proper Zone density. Expose the Zone I frame for that same given maximum black's time. Put it side by side with the maximum black print. It should be slightly lighter than the maximum black. If it's too black, that means you need to decrease your ISO. If it's too light, then you need to increase your ISO. For Zone VIII testing, expose it for the same time as well and put the result next to an unexposed paper and compare the whites.. This is all just a means to and end.

    The FB+F test off a regular image will simply tell you exactly what is on the negative. It is NOT intended for making a fine print. Making a fine print is about expression, or departing from reality. With the Maximum Black exposure, you are merely representing on paper the absolute Zone's that was placed on the negative. Thats it! Printing is not about representing absolutely what was on the negative, it's about conveying how you felt during the moment of exposure.

    The start of a fine print begins with the best straight print you can make. A straight print that contains excellent shadow detail and excellent highlights. Then you can proceed to express your idea through burning/dodging/flashing/etc.

    Andy
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    Money is not the problem. The problem is, I don't have any.

  3. #33
    MurrayMinchin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djklmnop
    The FB+F test off a regular image will simply tell you exactly what is on the negative. It is NOT intended for making a fine print. Making a fine print is about expression, or departing from reality. With the Maximum Black exposure, you are merely representing on paper the absolute Zone's that was placed on the negative. Thats it! Printing is not about representing absolutely what was on the negative, it's about conveying how you felt during the moment of exposure.

    [QUOTE=MurrayMinchin]
    Good method for PROOF and early WORK prints...not fine prints.
    (Had to say that again because somebody will think this is used for fine prints )
    [QUOTE]


    Quote Originally Posted by MurrayMinchin
    I put that last bit in there as a pre-emptive strike against the posts slagging us (wrongly) for making fine prints *only* at max black times.
    HeeHeeHee...told you so

    Murray

  4. #34
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    I'm the schmuck who started this thread some time ago after getting an analyzer with this indexing function built in. Envisioning results is such a personal thing that one could easily say that every response is correct. I still am amazed at how close to my final print I can get with a solid first test print using my current equipment. It takes an understanding of one's materials, experience and even a bit of intuition, but to be 90%+ there on the first print gives great insight into what is truly in the negative and a better start on making manipulation decisions.

    I have found it especially useful with catechol and pyro soups as the highlights hold up so well with less manipulating. I've been doing quite a few projects that require a rather large amount of prints to be done in very short order. It is especially helpful to combine controlled lighting and film behavior expectations with confident first print results for this sort of duty. On the other hand, I'm still doing multiple prints and burning/dodging when getting a single fine print just as envisioned but the system gets me further down the path to the final print by showing me what's in the negative and paper. Until I had equipment that had me at least trying this approach, I too, would have been very sceptical of approaching printing this.

    A formula approach to every print is certainly not called for but at the same time, a bit of pure white and a bit of black in a print can add to the visual interest when it's possble to include this and appropriate to the image.
    Craig Schroeder

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by djklmnop
    The start of a fine print begins with the best straight print you can make. A straight print that contains excellent shadow detail and excellent highlights. Then you can proceed to express your idea through burning/dodging/flashing/etc. Andy
    Really nice work Andy! Ansel Adams himself could not have coaxed a print of such bucolic tranquility from that appallingly contrasty work print.

    j

  6. #36
    djklmnop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon koss
    Really nice work Andy! Ansel Adams himself could not have coaxed a print of such bucolic tranquility from that appallingly contrasty work print.

    j

    I love you too!
    Money is not the problem. The problem is, I don't have any.

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