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  1. #111
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Well I thought about using this http://www.drewwiley.com/imgpop.php?...ry-imgs/frame1 as an example but it didn't quite fit what I was trying to show.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #112

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    I'm a fine grained guy myself but realize that artistic merit of grain.This thread has made me curious of extreme 35mm enlargement.Think I will try this w/Ektar and T-max 100

  3. #113
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cropline View Post
    I'm a fine grained guy myself but realize that artistic merit of grain.This thread has made me curious of extreme 35mm enlargement.Think I will try this w/Ektar and T-max 100
    It's fun! Try it out. What constitutes 'great' photography and print quality is highly individual, and when you go through a show at a museum where they show mural prints from 35mm by Salgado and more modest enlargements from large format negatives by photographers such as Andre Kertesz, and look at anything but resolution and grain, just marveling at the material and the stories the pictures tell, you realize how insignificant the negative size is in the grand scheme of things.

    I think us photographers often fall ill with the disease of criticizing ourselves based on ultimate print quality, and my experience (as an observer at museums) is that only photographers care.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I think us photographers often fall ill with the disease of criticizing ourselves based on ultimate print quality, and my experience (as an observer at museums) is that only photographers care.
    Unfortunate (my opinion only) but definitely true. When you attend say a serious printing workshop people will be into it all. Outside that setting nobody cares or notices - at least consciously.

  5. #115
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    It's fun! Try it out. What constitutes 'great' photography and print quality is highly individual, and when you go through a show at a museum where they show mural prints from 35mm by Salgado and more modest enlargements from large format negatives by photographers such as Andre Kertesz, and look at anything but resolution and grain, just marveling at the material and the stories the pictures tell, you realize how insignificant the negative size is in the grand scheme of things.

    I think us photographers often fall ill with the disease of criticizing ourselves based on ultimate print quality, and my experience (as an observer at museums) is that only photographers care.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  6. #116
    Patrick Robert James's Avatar
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    The only thing that matters is a great image. Everything else is noise. Non-photographers really don't care. They either connect with an image or they don't.

    In other words, I agree with Thomas.

    I appreciate Drew's opinions quite a bit, although he either is full of it when it comes to printing (doubt it) or he has one of the worst websites ever. I think it is the latter. I would love to see the work in the right way. His website doesn't do much for his credibility though.

    From a technical perspective, if you are going to make large prints you should be worried about the sharpness of the grain and not how fine it is. Mushy grain looks pretty bad with large prints. Large sharp grain can look pretty good no matter how large the print is.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Robert James View Post
    The only thing that matters is a great image. Everything else is noise. Non-photographers really don't care. They either connect with an image or they don't.

    In other words, I agree with Thomas.

    I appreciate Drew's opinions quite a bit, although he either is full of it when it comes to printing (doubt it) or he has one of the worst websites ever. I think it is the latter. I would love to see the work in the right way. His website doesn't do much for his credibility though.

    From a technical perspective, if you are going to make large prints you should be worried about the sharpness of the grain and not how fine it is. Mushy grain looks pretty bad with large prints. Large sharp grain can look pretty good no matter how large the print is.
    I like you simply because you sound like me haha, I haven't seen Drews website but if its bad I would have totally said that hahaha. My website is pretty horrible too, keep meaning to get on that...


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  8. #118
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cropline View Post
    I'm a fine grained guy myself but realize that artistic merit of grain.This thread has made me curious of extreme 35mm enlargement.Think I will try this w/Ektar and T-max 100
    Get some tech pan...


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I think us photographers often fall ill with the disease of criticizing ourselves based on ultimate print quality, and my experience (as an observer at museums) is that only photographers care.
    I think if you put a 40"x60" made from a 35mm negative and one made from an 8x10 negative in front of the average person they will be able to tell them apart. If they can't then they have a medically diagnosable disease. Medical visual acuity tests are far subtler. As far as do they care I have to ask what is the audience you are aiming for. I would say in any given year 95+% of people don't step into a museum or art gallery in the United States. Those people are not the final arbiter of whether my work has made the grade or not. Their idea of photography is a noisy picture from an iphone with a cheesy Instagram filter applied heavy handedly. Even having said all that I don't know how one would ascertain merely by observing whether people care. I care and I don't announce it as I look at photographs. I usually walk through entire museums and galleries without saying a word.

    When I make a print I try to at least do the easy stuff to add extra layers of depth. For some of my work shooting large format would enhance things further, but life is full of trade offs. I stick with medium format. I pick the trade offs I'm willing to live with. But that doesn't mean a large format negative won't produce a discernibly better print that people will appreciate a bit more. It may only be a 10% gain for a lot more effort. That may not be worth it to you. But it doesn't mean there is no perceivable and appreciated gain.

  10. #120

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    Thanks guys. I don't sell electronic images, just actual prints. A website is just a business card, and of so little tactical importance to me that
    I've never upgraded it. About 1% of my work is represented there. If you want an original print of that graffiti heart image, no more Ciba avail,
    so you calculate... it went for around $2500 in the mid-80's. So you can guess the inflation game.



 

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