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  1. #71
    Patrick Robert James's Avatar
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    Drew, where do you get the Kertesz/Avedon/Zero comment?

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatso View Post
    You don't need a big camera to make large prints. When did we all start assuming visible grain is a bad thing ? Grain is often very beautiful and adds to the richness of a print.
    I agree. I love grain.

    But get back emough (let's say 15 feet for a 40x60 print) and you just can't see the grain anymore. It magically disappeared

  3. #73

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    Patrick - the Kertesz comment is rather famous. It was related to him being offered a one-man show at at major NYC museum, which he refused
    because they had shown Avedon first, whom he termed an "advertising photographer" and called a "zero". You might want to check some
    Kertesz bio. He had absolute contempt for Avedon's photog. I just find his work calculated, predictable, and obnoxiously prevelant, even though at this point in history it should be moth-eaten. I feel the same way about Warhol, and about the basic current mass invasion of instant
    "gotcha" advertising-style photography. For all I know Avedon could have been a real nice guy. But his marketing personna certainly made
    him look like a jerk - wearing out their sitters until they were exhausted and then tripping the shutter in an off moment and calling this
    "revealing their inner soul" - and then getting another batch of sitters to fall for the same trick! He must have been a great salesman!
    But damn ugly prints indeed.

  4. #74

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    Fatso & kindred spirits: Grain is one thing, beautiful grain another. I gave up on that line of thinking when Agfachrome 1000 was discontinued.
    Talk about lovely grain! It was avail in 120 film too. But at a certain level of magnification, grain becomes mush, and then you have to back
    way off to view things coherently. Now people just hit the pseudo-grain simulation button, fingerprint & lint app, sratchmark app, catbarf app,
    whatever.

  5. #75
    Dinesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Avedon should have stayed in neurotic NYC with his fashionista friends. His American West series was utterly corny and had no affinity for his subject matter, which he treated like just another advertising commodity. I completely agree with Kertesz in classifying him as a Zero. Smart-yes, but in gaming the system.
    It's nice to see that you have brought your charming personality over from the L.F.F.
    Kick his ass, Sea Bass!

  6. #76

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    Yeah... probably forgot where I was posting. ... and should count my blessings ... namely, be grateful Avedon didn't get his hands on a Holga.

  7. #77
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Yeah... probably forgot where I was posting. ...
    I have done that too.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  8. #78

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    What do you mean by that?

  9. #79
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    A while ago I suggested to someone that talking about digital was out of line, it wasn't here.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #80
    Patrick Robert James's Avatar
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    That comment of Kertesz, if true, would make me wonder if his attitude wasn't a large factor in his being overlooked for so many years. I do recall thinking he had a bit of a chip on his shoulder after seeing an interview a few years ago. We do know that he wasn't "accepted" by the big editors when he emigrated to the US and it curtailed his career, which begs the question, why? Maybe we have that answer.

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