Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,556   Posts: 1,573,197   Online: 964
      
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 48
  1. #31
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    14,503
    Images
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Fisher View Post
    I think the best thing to do is to forget about split printing, burning or dodging. The first step to getting a good print is nailing the exposure and the contrast. The technique I use to do this is to use test strips I cut from a sheet and expose the strips in the same place where the key element is. Expose it as your "normal" contrast (2 or 3) over a range of times. Make sure you get a time that is too much and one that is too little based on the highlights only. Then, tweak the contrast to get the blacks you want. The time may need to be tweaked after you nail the contrast. Don't be tempted by short cuts until you are consistently making good prints. Oh, yeah, and it takes a lot of paper in the garbage to make a good print!
    Thanks for keeping it real, Mark. It's easy to get carried away with too much stuff and forget about the very important basics. Exposure and contrast - that's where it all begins.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #32
    JimO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    left coast of the east coast - FL, USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    321

    for me

    make a good negative

    jvo

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    16,883
    Images
    23
    the thing is that having a good negative doesn't make you a good printer ..
    it makes printing easy because the negative lends itself well to being printed.
    if you have an underexposed, or over exposed negative one where there is excessive contrast
    or flatness or something else, THAT will force you to learn how to print.
    i used to purposefully load film in a camera shoot at the wrong fstop and shutter speed,
    and put the wrong asa into the camera so the meter was useless
    then process everything in a batch ( pan f, plus x, tri x tmz &c ) and then try to print everything i could
    off of all the rolls ...
    the thing is that not every negative will be a good negative, and it might be something you want to print ...

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,001
    John makes an excellent point in my opinion. Consistent, high quality negatives certainly make printing less troublesome, but developing printing skill is where the biggest bang for the buck is. A great printer can often work wonders even with a crap quality negative and save the image. A mediocre printer on the other hand will probably make mediocre prints of perfect negatives, and be at a loss to print from crap negatives (which will inevitably happen). I'd take some proverbial pages out of Ansel's books on this issue. He was able to control most of his negatives very well, but some of his most powerful images exist despite relatively poor negative quality.

  5. #35
    Bill Burk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    3,538
    Images
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by nextreme View Post
    I was just reading about f-stop printing, but it seems to require a timer than can be set to fractions of a second, right ? (mine can't)

    Bill, that is a great quote ! it's got me thinking...

    I do have a question (for everyone). When you find the min exposure time to get max black using the clear bit of leader, do you use that as the starting time for your test strips ?

    Oh, and I too have a half frame camera, a Ricoh Auto Half E. I think I have the negative carrier for it too

    Many thanks everyone
    Steven

    (I will post an update after my next print session, hopefully one night this week)
    F-Stop printing is as simple as using the sequence 5 - 10 - 20 - 40 seconds (doubling each step) instead of 5 - 10 - 15 - 20 for your test strips. (I personally use 13 - 16 - 20 - 25 - 32 seconds because it gives me "third-stops"). Unless your times are under 10 seconds you probably won't need fractional second precision.

    The minimum-time-to-maximum-black is associated with another "Fred Picker" philosophy, where he would consistently expose negatives to a precise minimum necessary exposure (to look good at that point). In reality your best test strip selections may not relate closely to that black strip printed from the clear leader. Of course if that strip is dingy gray when the rest of the print looks realistic, it might mean you should increase the paper contrast.

  6. #36
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    14,503
    Images
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    John makes an excellent point in my opinion. Consistent, high quality negatives certainly make printing less troublesome, but developing printing skill is where the biggest bang for the buck is. A great printer can often work wonders even with a crap quality negative and save the image. A mediocre printer on the other hand will probably make mediocre prints of perfect negatives, and be at a loss to print from crap negatives (which will inevitably happen). I'd take some proverbial pages out of Ansel's books on this issue. He was able to control most of his negatives very well, but some of his most powerful images exist despite relatively poor negative quality.
    I think the intention should be to make a great negative. It would be rather counterproductive to make crappy negatives, because at the end of the day we all screw up enough times anyway that we are challenged to make a good print.

    Sure it's more difficult to make a good print from a shitty negative, and it does teach us to appreciate AND recognize the good ones. The increased difficulty probably does make us better printers, but I don't think anybody here can recommend to make it a goal to make shitty negs just to learn to print.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    16,883
    Images
    23
    hi thomas

    i agree with you, the goal should be to make great negatives and great prints ...

    what i was suggesting ( and suggested to do on page 2 ) is to print EVERYTHING that you can get,
    even if the films are crappy, even if the negative isn't film .. everything ... ( crayon, charcoal water glass, cliche verre, ink &c )

    while i learned an immeasurable amount working for a portrait photographer whose every negative was PERFECT ...
    i learned even more when i was working with the dregs ...


    the problem is, no one when they are learning to print has perfect negatives, they just their 2 or 10 years worth of crappy negatives
    poorly exposed backlit under developed ... speaking for myself, i had at least 10 years worth (now its more like 30 )
    there's nothing wrong about poorly exposing and processing film ON PURPOSE .. it teaches you about film too
    if someone has a roll of film, expired, fresh, whatever, and they shoot crappy stuff on purpose, and process it wrong
    it will teach them how the film reacts with light, and time, and developer, nothing wrong with that ...

    most people take other people's word for things they never bother to learn anything on their own, i'd rather learn on my own,
    since 9 times out of ten, people who dispense advice just regurgitate what someone else told them without any first hand experience.
    on the internet and in forums especially ... and in "real life" yikes! i would say 90% of the people i would talk with
    during the time i was teaching myself to print better, had no clue and they just spewed nonsense ...
    and if i showed them a negative and a print i conjured from it they insisted i didn't, it wasn't from that negative, or some other load of BS ...

    now i can pretty much print anything that comes into my hands, client work, or my negatives that obviously, considered by most to be pretty crappy LOL
    every once in a while i still pick up semi-translucent trash from the street or recycle bin or a piece of glass smeared with something or whatever .. and make a print from it ...

    YMMV
    Last edited by jnanian; 07-22-2013 at 09:33 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    41
    Its about 7:00am and I'm heading into the city for an early morning walk about photo shoot. Its very grey and overcast.

    I don't know if this will make something difficult or easy to print, but I'll use something from this shoot for my next try. Maybe I can include a picture of the negative for opinions, and the print too.

    Steven

  9. #39

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    965
    Images
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by nextreme View Post
    I was just reading about f-stop printing, but it seems to require a timer than can be set to fractions of a second, right ? (mine can't)
    Not really. If you have to round off a few tenths of a second it doesn't make a visible difference on your print. An F-stop timer is a great convenience because it does the math for you, but I started doing it with an old Gralab 300.

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by nextreme View Post
    Its about 7:00am and I'm heading into the city for an early morning walk about photo shoot. Its very grey and overcast.

    I don't know if this will make something difficult or easy to print, but I'll use something from this shoot for my next try. Maybe I can include a picture of the negative for opinions, and the print too.

    Steven
    Well there goes that plan - it started pouring rain, what a drag.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin