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  1. #21
    NedL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    The three layers all have the same contrast. It is the difference in sensitivities to blue and green light that allow contrast control. Have a look at Ilford's tech pub for a good explanation:

    http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/...8932591755.pdf

    I used to make the same mistake myself (as I suspect most people do) when explaining how VC papers work. Somewhere along the way (I don't remember how) we all got the notion VC paper worked by having a green-sensitive low contrast emulsion and a blue-sensitive high contrast emulsion. In fact this is not the case.
    Oh wow. I'll go read it. I'm one of the "misinformed"! Might need a new thread for this!

  2. #22

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    Here's more good reading on how vc papers work, for anyone interested. It doesn't answer OP's question though.

  3. #23

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    NedL: There are already some threads in which Nicholas Lindan attempted to correct us all but nobody paid the proper attention to what he was saying!!! In retrospect I cringe at the number of times I incorrectly "explained" to people how VC paper worked. However we shouldn't feel too bad. I've read the same incorrect explanation from some high profile photographers.

  4. #24

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    There is no law stating that you HAVE to use variable contrast papers in any VC mode. You can just print them like a graded paper, though
    the outcome will be determined by the general color of your light as well as the specific paper itself. With my Aristo grid head as well as my
    various colorheads, most VC papers seem to land around grade 3 when not otherwise filtered up or down from there. Now if that is somewhow to hard to understand when someone is allegedly miraculously capable of making "perfect" negatives, then there is some kind of conceptual disconnect involved. I don't know what a perfect negative is anyway. I tend to print the negative several different ways, even with different papers, and might like them all equally, though in different ways. Therefore I don't know what a "perfect" print is either. I like to make compelling and rich prints, but gave up on the possibility of perfection in art when I was about eight years old.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    NedL: There are already some threads in which Nicholas Lindan attempted to correct us all but nobody paid the proper attention to what he was saying!!! In retrospect I cringe at the number of times I incorrectly "explained" to people how VC paper worked. However we shouldn't feel too bad. I've read the same incorrect explanation from some high profile photographers.
    Michael,
    Thanks for that. The document you linked to makes perfect sense. I did know that MGIV was 3 emulsions, but I certainly had their functions wrong. This makes the discussion of pre and post-flashing with different filters a little more interesting to think about! Off to read silverorO's darkroom automation link...

  6. #26

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    It was a nice coincidence silveror0 posted that link. It's written by Nicholas Lindan

    Indeed based on how these papers actually work, it was difficult (for me at least) to work out in my head what the differences might be between say flashing with a #00 vs white light. I've always flashed with a grade 1 or 2 filter but I wanted to test this and see what is actually going on.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    As for me, I'm of the school of the "straight print". No hocus pocus in the darkroom. Get the negative right and then make a straight print--it is what it is, and move on. Otherwise, if you are going to do all that manipulation, you might as well throw the negative away afterwards, because you're never going to be able to pull that negative from the file in a couple years and duplicate the first print. Make the negative your "masterpiece" and make straight prints. But that's me.
    I'm with Tom on this.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    I'm with Tom on this.
    I'm not. Even when the negative is "right" for the papers I usually use (Ilford MGIV and MGWT), it prints differently if I decide to use some of the other papers I have (Forte PWT, for example). There's also the possibility (especially using roll film) that some compromise must be met, for a scene which would be best served by a different development time. It's not "hocus-pocus". It's a valuable tool, which any competent darkroom worker should be well versed.

  9. #29
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    whyThis can be done with one simple test.emailme if you like detailed instructions@rlambrec@ymail.com.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    However the current generation of multigrade filters are not like this. They seem to be a perhaps more sophisticated set of colours. #00 looks orange. There is then the more or less expected progression to magenta through grade 3 1/2. Then a change in colour again at grade 4 onward, which seems (to the eye) to be less "magenta" than grade 3 1/2.
    Hi Michael, my Ilford MG filters are also like yours. If you need an explanation of why that is, don't ask me 'coz I know sweet FA why. However, if you need some reassurance that they work 'perfectly' then take it from me, they do.
    Norman is an island.Time and tide wait for Norman.

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