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  1. #11
    teekoh's Avatar
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    Are there benefits to keeping the entire process alkaline vs introducing a hardening stop bath? Aside from having to buy and store another chemical. I know that when toning prints its easier with a non-acidic stop am I correct? Are there any additional benefits?

  2. #12
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    There's only disadvantages of keeping the entire process alkaline, you need to acidify any developer carried over in the paper emulsion and base. If you don't do this the developer carried over to the fixer is effectively a forming a weak monobath, early prints might be OK but you're running an unnecessary risk of ruining your prints and the effect may not be immediately apparent.

    Ron Mowrey who designed TF-4 he uses and recommends using an acid stop bath with prints and has written that he's seen dichroic fogging/staining in prints when one isn't used. If you keep the stop bath reasonable fresh it can be half strength.

    Ian

  3. #13

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    teekoh,

    Bite the bullet and use a stop bath. Use tray stackers if you need more room in the sink. You don't need carried-over developer contaminating the prints after fixation (which would happen if you used the same water tray). True, as ROL suggests, you could use a tray of fast-running water, but then you couldn't use it for stopping development when a print after the fix was in it, plus, you'll still run the risk of dichroic fog as Ian points out above.

    Four trays is really not so many... Developer, stop, fix, running water.

    As for toning: the stop bath has nothing whatsoever to do with it. A non-hardening fixer is important and, if like me you transfer prints directly from the second fix to the toner, so is a non-acidic fixing bath. However, I find that Ilford Rapid Fix or Hypam is neutral enough for my purposes.

    Best,

    Doremus

  4. #14

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    Just a clarification - Ron (PE) designed TF5, not TF4. TF5 is a ~neutral (very slightly acidic) rapid fix. TF4 is alkaline. They can both be used with an acid stop bath.

    A water stop bath is ok but it has to be thorough enough to clear the developer. So you really need running water or several water changes.

    I assume teekoh means acid stop bath, not hardening stop bath.

    Regarding potential benefits of alkaline/neutral fixing for prints, there are some threads on this. It can shorten washing times, although this is a complex topic. Another potential benefit is that an alkaline rapid fixer will not bleach prints if fixing time is extended (not sure why one would extend fixing times past what is required but anyway).
    Last edited by Michael R 1974; 12-02-2013 at 08:31 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #15
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Iagree with Ian, but I doubt that it will do any harmeven that it is not recommendeddue to the risk of back contamination.even small amounts of fixer in the developer can cause stains andspots. it's better to have dedicatedtraysand no regrets. if you are pressed for desk or sink space, consider a rack to stack trays.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

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