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  1. #51
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maris View Post
    Cropping? It depends.

    My latest exhibition features full frame 8x10 contacts including the film rebate as a black border. The proposition here, whether the viewer buys it or not, is ultimate conceptual integrity. The 8x10 is seen, exposed, processed, finished, mounted, and displayed without changing its original size or its original vision. I'm claiming full responsibility for the content right to the edges and corners. The viewer knows they are not short-changed. The absence of cropping is part of the art-spiel.

    Apart from SLRs with 100% viewing (Nikon F etc) cameras with viewfinders do not afford precise framing so the presentation of full frame pictures with a black "verification border" is a technical affectation. That doesn't negate the right of the photographer to claim responsibility for the content. It does however undo fantasy claims that the photographer composed right to the edges.

    Most of my photographs are cropped because of the difference between "framing" and "composition". Composition is getting all the components of the subject matter, side to side and front to back, in the right relationship to each other. Framing comes next. If all the things I want to include from the chosen camera position don't fit in the picture I can't step back. That would change the composition. So I use a wider angle lens to get "everything in" and complete the framing by cropping the final photograph. This happens more often than not.
    As you state that most of your photographs are cropped, but your latest exhibition features full frame, does this mean you are changing your style and approach to photography?

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  2. #52
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    I'm still "fully responsible" for what's in the image. What the heck difference does it make if I make include/exclude decisions in the camera or in the darkroom? The distinction seems pretty silly and artificial to me.

  3. #53
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    I'm still "fully responsible" for what's in the image. What the heck difference does it make if I make include/exclude decisions in the camera or in the darkroom? The distinction seems pretty silly and artificial to me.
    When you are in the darkroom you can't print what you excluded from the image in the camera.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoffy View Post
    Does it really matter?

    I'm sure most of us try to get it right in the camera. I'm sure most of us crop when we print.
    I guess there's no point for anyone else to answer, thanks.

  5. #55
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    When you are in the darkroom you can't print what you excluded from the image in the camera.
    That's true, and that argues for including more than you think you want, at least with medium or large format, because you can always exclude more later.

    But my point is just that whether it's composed in the camera or additional composing (including changing the shape - I often print rectangular from my 6x6 negs, in various ratios) *I* am still responsible for it. Refining composition in the darkroom is just another tool.

  6. #56
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    That's true, and that argues for including more than you think you want, at least with medium or large format, because you can always exclude more later.

    But my point is just that whether it's composed in the camera or additional composing (including changing the shape - I often print rectangular from my 6x6 negs, in various ratios) *I* am still responsible for it. Refining composition in the darkroom is just another tool.
    I agree, but by including more than you think you want, is that not saying you are not really uncertain about what you wish to capture? And if so, surely the darkroom work is a repair job.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  7. #57
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Depends. Note that I seldom intentionally "include more than I want" unless I know I'll print horizontal or vertical and I'm shooting with a square camera, or in the case where I can't get close enough or use a long enough but not too long lens.

    But one could be working quickly and know that you can look at it more closely later too.

    We make other creative decisions in the darkroom that almost no one blinks about - dodging, burning, overall print density, contrast range, bleaching, pre-flashing, toning the image and so on. Why on earth is cropping not treated as just as respectable as all the others?

  8. #58
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Depends. Note that I seldom intentionally "include more than I want" unless I know I'll print horizontal or vertical and I'm shooting with a square camera, or in the case where I can't get close enough or use a long enough but not too long lens.

    But one could be working quickly and know that you can look at it more closely later too.

    We make other creative decisions in the darkroom that almost no one blinks about - dodging, burning, overall print density, contrast range, bleaching, pre-flashing, toning the image and so on. Why on earth is cropping not treated as just as respectable as all the others?
    Because it effects the entire integrity of the original image?

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  9. #59
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maris View Post
    Apart from SLRs with 100% viewing (Nikon F etc) cameras with viewfinders do not afford precise framing so the presentation of full frame pictures with a black "verification border" is a technical affectation. That doesn't negate the right of the photographer to claim responsibility for the content. It does however undo fantasy claims that the photographer composed right to the edges.
    Both my examples were rangefinder, and I'll own up to the inaccurate centering of Aidan in Bubblegum Alley due to possible Parallax error. I live with some goofs. As cliveh pointed out, it's a weak composition horizontally. I must have difficulty composing when the subject matter is simple. Ava in Mendocino though, is a brilliant example of fantasy composition. A Bessa II rangefinder does not give accurate composition, so plenty of allowance for slop (bleed) in arrangement is necessary to get a successful shot to the edges with a camera that doesn't give accurate framing.

  10. #60
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    Because it effects the entire integrity of the original image?
    It does? I don't see that, no more than, say, dodging.



 

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