Hmm I don't find that analogy quite appropiate(need a better word). to me if consequently cropping images e.g. from one aspec ratio to another its like trying to make the Bratch sound like the Violin. To me the improvisation and play by ear is the compositon within the frame. You may be bending or breaking the regular "rules" of composition but you work within the limits of your instrument. Consequent cropping is like tryiong to turn your instrument into another.
Originally Posted by fotch
Last edited by Soeren; 01-02-2014 at 11:50 AM. Click to view previous post history.
As always on apug, the straw men get set up and the straw men fall.
I compose in the camera because of all the slide film I use to shoot. But I think the more important issue is not so much cropping but angle and direction of the shot. It's one thing if you were too wide and picked up things on the edges that you crop out later. Where the issue is more imporant if by not formatting in the cqmera, you wind up with branches going into people's heads. Or the balance isn't quite right. Cropping won't help then. You have to move the camera to compose the content properly in the frame. That's why it's a good habit to compose in the camera.
I croup almost all photos film/digital. I find use a little wide angle shop is better than missing part of the photo. This why I use darkroom/photoshop. I first start using cropping with slide projector and wall with thumb tacks back 1964
Originally Posted by cliveh
Except for the fame part, yes I wish it didn't get me so riled up. I don't know why it is such a hot button topic for me.
Originally Posted by jnanian
It might have started in the early days printing from 35mm where I was forced to make a 20% crop decision on every print. If I wanted to crop every print, then I'd enjoy the opportunity to improve each shot - but I hated having an external arbitrary factor (the border of the easel or aspect ratio of the paper) - tell me what I could or could not show. And I was finding many negatives where what I saw in the camera is what I wanted to put on the paper.
So I solved the problem for myself by making wide, uneven borders. This evolved to black borders.
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I decide on my aspect ratio and print borders before I set up the camera. The subject I am working with determines the shape of the final print and its own framing. Only rarely do those coincide with 4x5-inch film and the lens selection I have.
For me, the world doesn't come in little 4x5-inch packages (or squares or any other aspect ratio for that matter). That means that I crop to get the print I visualized most of the time.
I don't use cropping as a matter of course to improve a bad composition. I will, however, sometimes defer my final decision on where to place a particular border till I get into the darkroom; it is often less hectic to do so when dealing with cold, wind, moving subjects, changing light, etc. in the field. I'll leave a little breathing room around the image and refine it later if I can.
Were I shooting slides or transparencies where there were no cropping possibilities in post-production, I would try to make the best composition I could within the limits of the medium. I shoot negative film and print in the darkroom, so the possibilities for image shape are practically limitless. I see no reason not to use them. I have yet, however, to make a print with curved borders.... I have made a round one or two though.
Doremus: You have a wonderful portfolio-I particularly admire Zabriskie Point. I notice most of your prints are 11x14" mounted in 16x20" frames. How did you decide on these measurements? Do you equalize the space on opposite borders?
The thread that wouldn't die. . . .
How I solved this issue for myself is by looking at the work of people whose work I like, and doing what they did. For me, that resulted in an undeniable conclusion about the results of the two systems as it related to me. Any time this question comes up, and it comes up quite often in different places, I look at the work of those who post, and I still come to the same conclusion I did originally, so that's the way I work.
So you found a personal solution from users here? That's great.
Originally Posted by mdarnton
There are times when I try something new based on encouragement here or experimentation that's outside my usual standard. Land of the Dinosaurs and Eclipse for example I stray from standards. Eclipse I also stray from my standard "No Cropping" guidelines because the image demanded special treatment. I don't resent that it's different.
I wish I could be like Doremus Scudder, free of the baggage that blocks me into a black rectangle... But I don't want to do what Diane Arbus did when she got fed up with black borders. Although the look of her later soft edges is beautiful, I don't want to copy just to follow her.
Im super strict. Its all in thd vf. Why do i even bother composing if im to crop later?
Im strict. Im a snob. Im a purist. I never crop.
Hcb? I dont know more then 6 of his pictures. Fanboys or the contrariams slways have to mention him. I dont know his work. But if he' like me, never cropped, then I guess he was as smart and as comon sensed as I am.
Croping is bad practice.