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  1. #11
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kino
    Yes, Peter and All; my response was strictly informational to PhotoEngineer. Guess I should have sent it as a PM, but I didn't...

    I DO NOT recommend you use perc (as we call it); it is carcinogenic and we wear organic vapor respirators when handle the stuff and have a routine medical monitoring program that does an annual battery of tests to chart blood protein levels and other variable to make sure we are not sliding over into Cancer.

    Not a good chemical to mess with; somewhat on par with Carbon Tet.
    Kino;

    You are correct as far as it goes.

    The problems you mention are exactly why Kodak recommended silicone oil. To avoid the problems inherent with chloro organic solvents.

    All of the enlargements that I had made by EK for me at Cape Canaveral were wet gate printed using silicone oil and then the negatives were 'dried' only with the chloro carbon solvent. EK suggested that Hollywood use the silicone oil with other solvents used in small quantity to 'rinse' the negatives (if even that).

    So, as usual, the answer is yes and no, or whatever. It is a mix out there. Environmentally friendly labs don't use chlorocarbons.

    PE

  2. #12

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    I have a Condit Pin Registered Oil Immersion Carrier. Robert Pace who is one of the world's premier photographic printers recommends oil immersion.. to reduce refraction from the carrier glass... along with a point light source. There are other fluids that are usable including turpentine. Oil immersion is also used with microscopy.

    The media Bob Pace advises using is Dow Corning fluid 200 viscosity 100. He recommends cleaning the oil from the negative or positive with a three successive dips ito three different containers of film cleaner amd then hanging the film chip to dry.

    I am going to make a suggesstion here:
    Get hold of some glass slide mounts w/o anti-newton glass. Use these for your carrier. If kami fluid is being used you may have to seal the slide mount to prevent evaporation of the fluid. When using oil bubbles are a real PAIN IN THE ASS. You have to get the bubbles out of your image area. I suggest that you work on a level surface and that your enlarger holds the carrier in a level plane. I am not talking about alignment here..If you eliminate the bubbles when on a level plane and then insert the carrier into a properly aligned enlarger that is NOT level the bubbles will drift. If you wish to see just how fine of a circle your enlarging lens can project then having bubbles in the image area will illustrate it for you nicely My lawd what clear and tiny bubbles you will project....perfection indeed!

    Along with preventing refraction from the carrier glass scratches and transparent dust motes will disappear.
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

  3. #13

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    Hi Claire,

    Thanks for the info. Here's a link to microscop immersion oil. http://www.2spi.com/catalog/ltmic/cargille.shtml

    -Peter

  4. #14
    RJS
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    As I remember about 30 years ago there was some stuff (Edwal?) that came in a small bottle with a brush. I used it on a scratched 35mm neg and itprinted beautifully. Called "no scratch" I think. It was oily, and I never got it off the neg but it didn't seem to hurt over some time.

  5. #15

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    There are three ways to wet gate motion picture film -- two of them that can be used by still photography-- the "aquarium" model (as above), where the film is totally immersed in a fluid bath within an aquarium or tray of glass (and yes, bubbles ARE Hell in motion picture work too) and the applicated method whereby a wick with the fluid is passed over the element and placed directly in the printing aperture and exposed.

    The Edwal "No-Scratch" was probably silicone oil and was applicated to a negative and placed in an enlarger immediately. Trick was to get just enough; too little and it didn't do the job and too much and it runs down into the enlarger...

    Better have some good film cleaner, 1:1:1 or 1:1:2 Trichlorethene, or similar to remove it though; it can be hard to get off both the neg and the carrier.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    Environmentally friendly labs don't use chlorocarbons.
    PE
    Yes, but, environmentally friendly labs don't copy millions of feet of nitrate motion picture film a year; period. ;-)

    We have carbon scrubbers and are regulated out the wazoo. I'd be more afraid of the fumes in a typical garage storage cabinet than in our lab...

  7. #17

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    Oil immersion is recommended for making seperation negatives for the dye transfer process. This carrier allows you to sandwich your transparency and contrast and highight masks keeping them extremely flat. You can use mineral oil, silicon oil or castor oil because they all have similar refraction indexes to the glass in the carrier. As Claire has stated Bob Pace recomends the Dow Corning #200 as probably the best for the oil immersion process. According to Bob the Dow oil does not soften the emulsion like the other oils which makes damage to the slide or negative easier. The glass in the carriers must be as clean as possible and you will need some sort of thin knife to pry the glass apart after it has been in contact with the oil. It can be a messy process but the results will be worth the effort.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kino
    Yes, but, environmentally friendly labs don't copy millions of feet of nitrate motion picture film a year; period. ;-)

    We have carbon scrubbers and are regulated out the wazoo. I'd be more afraid of the fumes in a typical garage storage cabinet than in our lab...
    And, with all of those chlorocarbons present, you have a built in fire extinguisher to keep from having problems with the nitrate film.

    PE

  9. #19

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    Where can one purchsase the Dow Corning fluid 200, viscosity 100.

    And what film cleaner does Mr. Pace recommend for the clean-up of the negative. Or more specifically, what is in the film cleaner?

    Sandy


    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Senft
    I have a Condit Pin Registered Oil Immersion Carrier. Robert Pace who is one of the world's premier photographic printers recommends oil immersion.. to reduce refraction from the carrier glass... along with a point light source. There are other fluids that are usable including turpentine. Oil immersion is also used with microscopy.

    The media Bob Pace advises using is Dow Corning fluid 200 viscosity 100. He recommends cleaning the oil from the negative or positive with a three successive dips ito three different containers of film cleaner amd then hanging the film chip to dry.

    I am going to make a suggesstion here:
    Get hold of some glass slide mounts w/o anti-newton glass. Use these for your carrier. If kami fluid is being used you may have to seal the slide mount to prevent evaporation of the fluid. When using oil bubbles are a real PAIN IN THE ASS. You have to get the bubbles out of your image area. I suggest that you work on a level surface and that your enlarger holds the carrier in a level plane. I am not talking about alignment here..If you eliminate the bubbles when on a level plane and then insert the carrier into a properly aligned enlarger that is NOT level the bubbles will drift. If you wish to see just how fine of a circle your enlarging lens can project then having bubbles in the image area will illustrate it for you nicely My lawd what clear and tiny bubbles you will project....perfection indeed!

    Along with preventing refraction from the carrier glass scratches and transparent dust motes will disappear.
    Last edited by sanking; 03-07-2006 at 11:05 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #20

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    Mr King I bought mine bottle approximately 10 years ago. It was from K.R. Anderson a supplier located in Santa Barbara Californication. It was at that time $30 a pint. I do not know how many viscosities are available but specify the 100 version.

    I have not seen a brand of film cleaner specified by Mr. Pace. You could use PEC it is about $55/ pint. A film cleaner that I have never used id offered by Techcheminc (techcheminc.com) at $15 per gallon. Techcheminc offers a variety of photo chemicals at good prices and from the couple of orders I placed good service and customer response. Mr Robertr Shraeder..I am uncertain of the spelling here.. could tell you what is in the film cleaner.
    I am guessing the reason that they sell film cleaner by the gallon is that they have as a good part of their business xray development. Xray technicians are able to regularly go thru more film then even Mr. ULF King. Although their work is more penetrating then Mr King's it seems to me to be far less interesting.
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

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