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  1. #31
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  2. #32
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Darkroom ChromaCrafts @ May 6 2003, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dnmilikan @ Mar 4 2003, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
    If my tests using paper developer do not give me what I need then I will explore the Kodak material. It is my understanding that Kodak has split the graphics materials off from the photographic materials operation. Thus it may be more difficult for me to get it. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Kodak now has a division called KPG (KodakPolychromeGraphics) That is where all the graphics arts stuff is sold from. I think though you may need to find a dealer in your area that carries KPG stuff. Be warned that most of the materials now days are for electronic imaging. Imagesetters are the pre-press name of the game.


    lee&#092;c

  3. #33

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    Aggie,
    When one arrives at this point, I remember those who have said age is nothing more then "a state of mind"...let me tell you, in my experience that is rationalized b***s****. Then there are those who say that these are the "Golden Years"...I think that there is something called iron pyrite and I will give the folks expressing those sentiments the benefit of the doubt and consider that they may have been confused. I am quite sure that those who labeled the years "Golden" were damn sure not of my ilk.

    Jill,
    If anyone showed me respect, I would die of shock...so please don&#39;t do that to me. Now on to your question about my rambling on the products of an overactive mind.

    The process that I want to develop is one in which a black and white camera negative is separated into three density regions for printing purposes. The reason being that when one looks at the characteristic curve of a film or paper we find that the curve is divided into three distinct regions. Those being the toe, the straight line, and the shoulder. In the case of film, the toe region is the area of lowest negative density and is the area on which the shadows are located, The degree of slope of this region is fairly flat and for that reason the tonalities of the shadow region are not as well differentiated, the straight line section has a more pronounced slope and the tonalities are more clearly separated, on the shoulder the slope is again flatter and the highlights that are represented here are again not well separated.

    If one were able to create masks using lithographic film of each of these density regions, and printed the camera negative in register with each of these masks then the toe and shoulder region of the negative could be printed at a higher contrast filtration, using variable contrast paper. This higher contrast filtration would better separate the tonalities located in these regions. The midtone region where the degree of separation is more pronounced would then be printed at a lower contrast filtration then the toe or the shoulder regions.

    In printing, this would involve three separate exposures through the individual masks followed by an exposure through an unsharp mask to blend the demarcation points of the individual masks and to increase the apparent print sharpness by the "edge effects" produced by such a mask.

    I know that this process is possible, since it has been used by at least one other individual of which I am aware. The print quality was the best that I have ever witnessed, bar none. The materials used by this individual are closely protected and this is why I am engaged in seeking lithographic materials which will provide the sharp cutting and high contrast effect required for the production of the respective masks. As I mentioned yesterday, I do have a new material on the way to me for evaluation. Additionally, Les McClean has kindly volunteered to visit with the folks at Ilford. I am not sure whether Ilford is involved in graphics film manufacturing. I would appreciate any input that you may have, if you are aware of a graphics film/developer that would be applicable to this application.

    I hope that I have made myself clear. Any thoughts, considerations etc. by any and all are greatly appreciated.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  4. #34

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    Jeepers, creepers, I am a moron sometimes. I know what you need to do. Okay, if you want to use the line film for this it will actually be quite easy. Line/halftone films work as mentioned in an earlier post on the principle that only black and white exist. And you want to keep the solid rich black white contrast that is found when developed hard. Right?

    Put a gray scale next to the image while masking. For highlights mask print the negative with the exposure/aperature dropped by about half. Develop as usual you will find a hard black that only "caught" the highlights. Use the grey scale to determine if the white/black break occurred where you wanted it.

    Do the same for any level of midtones, then shoot reversals of those.

    Line film sees white, it actually does not see black. So the longer it is exposed the more of the page/print will seem to be white to the film. Exposusre length for example is very different for bold type versus say wedding invite type even on same paper, same typesetter, etc.

    Anyway this should work and I am stupid for not getting it yesterday. If I have time this weekend I will do some tests and try to post the results of the masks visually this weekend.
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

  5. #35

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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lee @ May 7 2003, 04:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Darkroom ChromaCrafts @ May 6 2003, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dnmilikan @ Mar 4 2003, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
    If my tests using paper developer do not give me what I need then I will explore the Kodak material. It is my understanding that Kodak has split the graphics materials off from the photographic materials operation. Thus it may be more difficult for me to get it. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Kodak now has a division called KPG (KodakPolychromeGraphics) That is where all the graphics arts stuff is sold from. I think though you may need to find a dealer in your area that carries KPG stuff. Be warned that most of the materials now days are for electronic imaging. Imagesetters are the pre-press name of the game.


    lee&#092;c </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Lee, I buy from the reprography racks at kodak and agfa so I have suppliers and it is not strictly for image setters.

    Anyway, Don, if your greyscale is in place when you set for you masks you will be able to determine exactly where you "split" or "break" black and white, just do that where you want to. For a "proper" shot obviously the break would be between 5-6 on a 10 scale. Use less time to break it high and more to break it low. Process hard and or long for good density wear it is exposed and reacting
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

  6. #36

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    Sorry, for these little add ons. I am trying to get ready for work and head off to get something done and think "OH&#33;" one more thing. Use a continuous tone greyscale not a halftoned one. The half tone would probably give you some info but the continuous tone will be more accurate to your purposes.
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

  7. #37

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    correction from earlier post (LOL) *where it breaks. You can tell I was getting dressed. tee heeeeeee gotta goooooo.
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

  8. #38
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    Don,
    you&#39;re right about just being. In my family we don&#39;t stop til they close the lid. My grandmother got a 10 speed bike for her 90th birthday. Why? she lived at an old peoples home in Denmark. She didn&#39;t want to ride the bus with all the other old ladies and be thought of as one of them. She wanted to be thought of as young. It didn&#39;t matter she was the oldest one at the home.

    I have been told that our family all dies when we hit our 80&#39;s but we are so stubborn we refuse to lie down til we are over 110. Leaves a long time for photography for me. They better have film and chemisty around. I am stubborn enough and yell rather loud, I will demand my film.
    Non Digital Diva

  9. #39

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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aggie @ May 7 2003, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Don,
    you&#39;re right about just being. In my family we don&#39;t stop til they close the lid. My grandmother got a 10 speed bike for her 90th birthday. Why? she lived at an old peoples home in Denmark. She didn&#39;t want to ride the bus with all the other old ladies and be thought of as one of them. She wanted to be thought of as young. It didn&#39;t matter she was the oldest one at the home.

    I have been told that our family all dies when we hit our 80&#39;s but we are so stubborn we refuse to lie down til we are over 110. Leaves a long time for photography for me. They better have film and chemisty around. I am stubborn enough and yell rather loud, I will demand my film. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Wow, I think your Grandmother rocks&#33; Self-sufficient, and fixes what she doesn&#39;t like. You must have good genes. If your avatar is your image, then I am sure you must, because you seem to glow. MORE FILM&#33; I can hear it now.

    JL
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

  10. #40

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    Don, this idea of yours is keeping me awake because I am so intrigued by its usefulness. Anyway I really think I have it figured out.

    1. Take an underexposed shot appropriate to "blacken" only the highlights.

    2. Take a neg of #1. Now you have a negative with "open" highlights to print only the highlights.

    3. Take an overexposed shot so that all but the shadows are "blackened". Now you have a negative with "open" shadows.

    4. Take a negative of #3.

    5. Now stack #1 and #4 and take a negative of this which will give you "blacken" midtones.

    6. Take a negative of 5 for open midtones.

    There maybe now I can sleep. I will still test it if I have time this weekend. I hope it is okay that I ramble around about things online instead of waiting till I&#39;m sure to post and then obviously repost and so on.
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

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