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  1. #21

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    Sorry - just noticed that I duplicated Jason's post. It's early Sunday morning!!!

    Sorry again.

    Bob
    "Why is there always a better way?"

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by sun of sand View Post
    The teacher is just being an ass wasting time
    I guess the more crap you get right on a test the better it looks for the school
    How concrete can the statement "takes good photos" be on your final?

    Tell your teacher to screw off with the enlarger diagrams and just teach you kids how to use em ..it takes about 2 days to become familiar with the procedure, if that. Show up with some negatives and paper in hand and ask where the f you make prints at. Nothing else concerning the enlarger really matters in a photography course esp a beginner one



    Really
    Perhaps a camera diagram
    but one for the enlarger?
    Naw, no thanks.
    I have taught College, University, and Grad School (not photography -Labour Relations Law). I have met a few students like the writer in this quote who are convinced that they know everything and just how it should be taught. If they graduate (which is rare) they are invariably ineffective in industry. If they're lucky, they grow up before they graduate and change their attitude.

    To the OP -take the advice of several of the posters here and ask for another info sheet from your Prof or get one from a classmate. If you already know the stuff, you'll get good marks on the test. While undoubtedly there are Profs that just give tests to generate some marks, Profs design tests to ensure that the knowledge of the student is adequate before advancing to the next topic.
    When the Prof says "make sure your condensers are adjusted for 6X6 format and the filter drawer is empty when you focus", and you think you know better, or just don't know what to do, you are going to wind up with fuzzy vignetted prints with no idea why your prints look bad.

    So -it's your choice. I wish you well.
    Rick Jason.
    "I'm still developing"

  3. #23

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    I think as a practitioner, it's easy to assume that basic knowledge is unimportant because you have had that knowledge for so long that it's just "background noise" to you. For a teacher, however, that the students have that basic knowledge is essential. Without it, the teacher would spend more time describing "that knob thingy to the right of the concertina bit that moves the lens up and down." There wouldn't be a lot of time left for teaching real photography!

    I do a lot of private lessons and I don't know how many times I had high school students tell me that the teacher's an ass. Teacher gives an assignment to demonstrate clarity and depth of field; student submits a fuzzy print; teacher gives an "F"; student says "but its art - I like it better that way - it's cool. Teacher's an ass!"

    My response has always been that you did, indeed fail in the assignment. The purpose of the assignment was to demonstrate that you understand the concept of depth of field and to show that you can produce a sharp detailed print. That is not the same as deciding that soft focus better suits a particular subject. If you can't produce a sharp image when you need to - you can't produce a fuzzy one when you want to.

    Aah yes - I was once rebellious, then life and taxes beat me down!!!
    "Why is there always a better way?"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobNewYork View Post
    Sorry - just noticed that I duplicated Jason's post. It's early Sunday morning!!!

    Sorry again.

    Bob

    I just want to know if we passed....

  5. #25

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    "I just want to know if we passed....
    __________________
    --J Brunner, The Prints of Darkness

    www.jasonbrunner.com

    Developing video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P9bNcBE_Hc"

    If we don't I'm calling for a recount! The kid has to get an A given the effort he/she went to. Put the school age me to shame!!
    "Why is there always a better way?"

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricksplace View Post
    I have taught College, University, and Grad School (not photography -Labour Relations Law). I have met a few students like the writer in this quote who are convinced that they know everything and just how it should be taught. If they graduate (which is rare) they are invariably ineffective in industry. If they're lucky, they grow up before they graduate and change their attitude.
    What I am saying is that a beginner doesn't need to read a diagram in order to learn how to operate the thing
    The teacher needs to teach the student how to operate the thing
    How long would it truly take?

    If a student is supposed to learn something valuable by reading a simple diagram that takes perhaps PERHAPS 1 hour to look over

    -and probably less time to create that is if it wasn't taken from somewhere

    till you're bleeding from the eyes searching for more
    it is obvious that the teacher could do the same in class where not only do you get to know the name given to the part but what it really does and how it does it

    Not enough time?
    Focus on what's important. Too hard? Too bad.

    Who needs to know terms? This is the COLUMN and this is the BELLOWS and this over here is the... what the hell DO you call the knob that focuses the image
    OH, the FOCUS KNOB? What brilliant stuff that is. Make up your own name for the enlarger parts! Call the bellows the Scrunchy, I don't care.

    You need not know the names in order to use the enlarger correctly. It's performance padding.


    What is the teachers job? Supervisor? Grader? Giver of diagrams and homework?
    I thought teachers taught
    It seems with too many teachers here in the US at least that the textbook teaches and teacher plays a secondary role
    Taking a page from prisons, I guess.
    Let the students teach themselves and when they forget everything they taught themselves during the 3 month teacher vacation known as summer
    Blame the student
    All of a sudden you need more $$$$$ so that you can get whatever the hell crap these schools purchase for the education of their students -certainly not better teachers

    ..but bigger, badder tile and nicer windows HELL YES, that'll work

    and then when that doesn't work revisit corporal punishment because it's obviously the culture of the day that is ruining subverting the educational system
    Sounds like a prison the more I think about it


    "ineffective in industry"
    Like not so good at stamping license plates?
    You want real leaders or real obedient oxen?
    You want a productive, inventive, innovative workforce or is it the ability to cheat the people producing your goods what you're most after?
    Dumb workers produce goods at a good clip with the least unrest
    Innovation can come from workers if they're allowed to innovate. Innovation produces more, better. More employees than employers so obviously a huge potential there
    BETTER is up to the boss to define. Hard workers or hard-working, equally intelligent workers? I don't knowwww. Would the worker go into business for himself? Takes money +. Would the worker remain loyal and help? Needs a reason to stay. Is it any better for the boss, though?

    I wonder how many true teachers are "ineffective in industry" when they decide to walk out
    100% of em
    You cannot be effective - not in the same way- if what is being called effective isn't
    There isn't any way to really show your goods when a 4.0 is basically the best you can score in the world
    75% looks ok when you're allowed to miss 10% with no penalty whatsoever
    75% starts to look pretty damn mediocre when you realize you missed 1/4 of the questions asked

    I'm not very good at playing games like this, dude.
    I get a little sick when people smile at their -barely- passing grade
    people can do better if it is expected of them



    "If they're lucky, they give up before they graduate and change their attitude."

    Grow up, eh? Sorry
    What do you mean by that exactly?

    I remember being one of the more mature kids growing up
    so
    I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out where those immature dinks passed me up
    In fact, I can point out a few of those same kids who did grow up to graduate from grad school and are still no different yet are
    I guess what you'd call effective
    ..eventhough it appears one of them -and this guy was sort of a friend of mine is content to "ruin" or make much more difficult
    his life and those of others
    I do not envy that man

    Seems to me you'd change my attitude so that I don't cut at "your" core anymore
    I'd be one of those students you have high hopes for but
    "just couldnt"
    bend the rules so that I could achieve them


    I'm not the one who really needs to grow up
    Being "ineffective" is not a part of who I am
    I am "ineffective" only if c*c*blocked.

    As for this student
    I'm pretty sure he knows better than to take attitude with someone
    I hope he does, anyway

  7. #27
    ann
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    it is obvious your very angry, however, you are making a lot of assumption.

    Perhaps the instructor did review all the information and heaven forbid wants their students to pay attention. You weren't there and you really don't know what was said or expected.

    i expect my students to know the correct terms to use as they aren't even graded.

    It is difficult to help someone when they said i forgot what that black thing does. that black thing can be a variety of things. Much easier to say, the negative carrier won't fit correctly.
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  8. #28

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    It is not worth it ann. The need for proper terminology has escaped him.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  9. #29

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    And the poor kid was only asking us for help with a homework assignment!!!

    Bob
    "Why is there always a better way?"

  10. #30

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    Good Evening,

    Ann--Your response to the rambling sun of sand diatribe above is a reasoned and sensible one, but Mark is probably right in deeming it futile. There are none so ignorant as those who refuse to be taught because they already know everything. Everyone, of course, is an expert on education; after all, everyone has been in school. My sympathy to those teachers who had to have sun of sand in class.

    Konical

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