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  1. #11
    blansky's Avatar
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    Frank:

    I have a Calumet 20x24 print washer which I've used for a few years. However this year I've been reading a lot of information on the fact that leaving your prints in running water is not as necessary as I had first been taught.

    The new information I've learned is that the prints need the initial wash for a few minutes, then Perma Wash, Hypo Clear, etc then a short wash then soaking. Apparently the fix well leech out of the fiber backing just as well while soaking as in running water. After a while run the water again and then let soak again. This process should only take about half an hour to forty five minutes.

    I now use this method in my print washer and save a lot of water, just by alternating running water and soaking.

    Also there is a web site that discusses this and tells you how to build an inexpensive washer . It is www.fineartphotosupply.com. Then go to "products" then to 'Watersaver Print Wash Kits"

    Later

    Michael McBlane
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  2. #12

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    I've thought about getting the Versalab washer. Seems cheaper than others and has received some favorable reviews. Here's the link:

    http://www.versalab.com/server/photo/produ...cts/washer1.htm

    Anybody here actually used one?

  3. #13

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    Just for general information on these vertical washers. David Vestal wrote an article a few years back where he had run extensive tests on all the washers on the market. His final conclusion was that, with the exception of the Cascading type washer, that most of the washers required well over an hour of wash time (some required up to 2 + hours) to insure that the prints were clean. Even the cascading type required up to 1 1/2 hours depending upon how it was loaded. Just food for thought.
    Also - Les is correct when he mentions that extensive wash time will wash out the print brighteners from FB paper. And today all most all papers contain a brightener. So if your prints don't seem to have that "snap" in your highlights, this might be the reason.

  4. #14
    edz
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mvjim @ May 21 2003, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>J His final conclusion was that, with the exception of the Cascading type washer, that most of the washers required well over an hour of wash time (some required up to 2 + hours) to insure that the prints were clean. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Baryta prints should not need more than 20 minutes of washing if processed correctly. The "trick" is to use rapid fixer in high concentration (for example as typical for films) to fix the paper in under 1 minute followed by a quick bath in 1% Soda sicc. solution. The Kodak syphon is a good tool but a nice trick is to let the paper sit for a tiny bit and then dump out the contents to let fresh water come in.. With a Kodak Tray Syphon and another Tray or two for soaking in 20-25C water one can process quite a few prints.. probably more than many of the more expensive washers deploying a less than ideal routine.

    I got a large centrifugal pump and my next "experiment" will be to see about just pumping room temperature water, perhaps filtered through cotton wad,..
    Edward C. Zimmermann
    BSn R&D // http://www.nonmonotonic.net

  5. #15

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    The "trick" of the one minute fix with film strength fixer may well put your images on the path to fading much quicker than you expect. Ilford recommends this method... with their papers. Some papers will not fix properly in this time. They also say it works with fresh fixer. This may mean that after two prints in a litre of working solution you have to dump & pour new or lose the working strength and "archival" properties you are looking for.
    Better to use the two bath method & be safe rather than shortcut on time & lose your prints.

  6. #16
    edz
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shooter @ May 22 2003, 01:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The "trick" of the one minute fix with film strength fixer may well put your images on the path to fading much quicker than you expect.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Although slightly more tedious one can--- and probably should--- test papers for their fixing times in YOUR fixing brew of choice (inclusive of concentration), similar to film, as the clearing time X some factor like 2 or 3, depending upon the rejuvination and maintaince of the fixing bath. Overfixing increases the washing times but does not increase the archival perminance of the pictures--- and can via underwashing prove to reduce same. The key is to fix as short a time as need be, inclusive of sufficient room for error given the decline in the effectiveness of fixing baths and the dangers of underfixing, to reduce the demands on washing. This too can be tested for--- washing time for "fresh" fixing is the max. time you&#39;ll ever need as washing time will decrease over time.
    In summary:
    - choose a fixing time that is sufficient for the most exhausted state of your fixer you shall be using + a factor for error. 3x the clearing time tends to be more than sufficient.
    - choose a washing time to meet your targets for remaining hypo from a starting point of fixing using the time established above and fresh fixer.

    Following the above procedures I think you will find that using concentrated fixer and a good washing procedure (dumping out the water a few times during the wash) times of 20 min shall prove sufficient.
    Edward C. Zimmermann
    BSn R&D // http://www.nonmonotonic.net

  7. #17
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    Many thanks for everyone who took the time and trouble to reply. I've gathered a lot of information as a result!

    For the time being I'm going to chuck the plans for a cascade washer and adopt the following washing regime:

    Dip / soak in a bath of fresh water for 30 secs to 1 min
    Washaid bath
    Tray washer for 30 mins
    Test at least one work print from each session with a residual hypo test kit.

    If washing starts to slow things down too much I'll build some of Les's tray washers and run them in parallel to my existing unit.

    Then all I have to do is dry the swines flat...!

    Thanks again,

    Frank

  8. #18
    edz
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankB
    Then all I have to do is dry the swines flat...!
    What is usefull here are those "old" flatbed print dryers. You maybe won't feel the need to express dry your prints on them or explore the art of ferrotyping but they do very good service to flattening prints and, despite the general view, are, when correctly handled and maintained, hardly less archival than the highly touted practice of using screens and vacuum presses.

  9. #19

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    Edz:

    I used one of these dryers for years with good results but ferrotyping was a regal pain. Keeping the glazing sheet clean so a print would not stick became a nightmare.

    I now air dry my prints face down on a fiber glass screen then finish them off in a dry mount press, and ferrotyped prints are now a bad dream from the past

    Mike

  10. #20
    edz
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeK
    I used one of these dryers for years with good results but ferrotyping was a regal pain.
    I'm not advocating these here for gloss.. not even for express drying.. but for flattening of prints.. Used 20x16" driers cost a tiny fraction of vacuum presses and unless one is dry mounting..

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