Switch to English Language Passer en langue franšaise Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,856   Posts: 1,583,027   Online: 919
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Thread: Black borders

  1. #1
    BetterSense's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    2,882

    Black borders

    I tend to not like leaving plain white borders, especially when a light area of the image (like the sky) runs right to the edge of the print. It seems like solid black borders would be better. Even trickier, would be a thin black border around the image but that goes back to white after it. I've tried to get black borders by laying card on the print and trying to get the edges even, but if it works at all it's always a pain and I haven't managed the thin-black-border yet. I can think of a couple ideas but they wouldn't be practical unless you always printed standard paper sizes. Does anyone have any tricks to making black borders?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Baltimore, MD., USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    230
    I couldn't agree more. I spent hours filing my negative carriers to get the full-frame with black border effect. My mentor from years ago explained that this technique "proved" to all that no cropping was employed in making the print.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Melbourne
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    140
    Cut some masks from exposed & developed graphic film (or other) and cut very slightly larger than your negative size. Very simple method, if you are printing the whole neg & not cropping. For accuracy, I measure first on some graph paper, tape this to the opaque film and use very sharp blades, be sure not to overcut.

  4. #4
    David William White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,182
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    32
    The easiest way to put black borders on a print is to make a mask smaller. Now, instead of trying to put it in the center, do this two step process: Put the mask in the upper left corner right at the print edge, and expose white light. Then slide the mask to the bottom right corner (diagonal), and expose again. Real easy to do and get the borders even.

    The easiest way to get black border with a white border outside of it is to do exactly as above, but with the paper held by a four-blade easel. The blades form the outer mask.

    Of course, you need one mask for each print size, but you probably only have 8x10 or 5x7.

    You could always overmount with black mat and not touch the print.

    P.S. Just a comment on Thomas's mentor: What are we, lawyers?

  5. #5
    Kvistgaard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Svendborg, Denmark
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    My mentor from years ago explained that this technique "proved" to all that no cropping was employed in making the print.
    Hey Thomas - your last comment there intrigues me a bit. Is no-cropping considered a photographic virtue. If so - do you know why that is?
    S°ren

    "We are much more likely to act our way into a new way of thinking than think our way into a new way of acting." - R. Pascale

  6. #6
    David William White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,182
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kvistgaard View Post
    Hey Thomas - your last comment there intrigues me a bit. Is no-cropping considered a photographic virtue. If so - do you know why that is?
    If that is a virtue, then of course we turn in our contact sheets as well, to 'prove' every composition is perfect.

  7. #7
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Central florida,USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,817
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    I tend to not like leaving plain white borders, especially when a light area of the image (like the sky) runs right to the edge of the print. It seems like solid black borders would be better. Even trickier, would be a thin black border around the image but that goes back to white after it. I've tried to get black borders by laying card on the print and trying to get the edges even, but if it works at all it's always a pain and I haven't managed the thin-black-border yet. I can think of a couple ideas but they wouldn't be practical unless you always printed standard paper sizes. Does anyone have any tricks to making black borders?
    The masks described by Dave work well, but better yet, try to find a pen-line easel. They are terribly expensive, but extremely well crafted easels to do just what you want. I can post a picture of one if you like. They are not made anymore, but I'm sure you'll be able to find one somewhere.

    That said, I can't resist to offer my opinion on pen-lines in general. In brief, and being very frank: They are an old fashioned way of hiding poor composition or a lack of printing ability. This is not always the case, but it is often the case.

    The condition you described is typical, but I would argue: Make sure the white disturbance at the border of the print is not part of your composition, or, print it out, spot it out, and if all fails, let this one go.

    In my opinion, the composition and the printing need to hold the image together, not a crutch called pen-line. If I start thinking about a pen-line, chances are, there is something wrong with the image or the printing. Some go to the extreme and use a pen-line with EVERY print. That's a clear sign of a misunderstood technique in my eyes.

    There are exceptions:

    High-key images often benefit from a pen-line. They contain a lot of white, and mounted on white mount-board, the image might not hold together otherwise. Yes, pen-lines work with some high-key images.

    An off-white, even light gray, mounting board can create an automatic framing similar to a pen-line. That's OK in my view, because it is not as obvious and attention-grabbing as a pen-line.

    A black frame itself is a pen-line in a way. Yes, but it serves the function of isolation the print from the wall, not to hide a poor composition.

    OK, these are just my opinions and not intended as a demand on others. But, do yourself the favor and as soon as an image screams for a pen-line, ask yourself why that really is. Put a pen-line around it if it helps, but don't use it as a general crutch. A good image does not need a pen-line to hold together. That's done by the composition and supported by the printing.

    Again, just my opinion.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  8. #8
    hughitb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    230
    Images
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by David William White View Post
    The easiest way to put black borders on a print is to make a mask smaller. Now, instead of trying to put it in the center, do this two step process: Put the mask in the upper left corner right at the print edge, and expose white light. Then slide the mask to the bottom right corner (diagonal), and expose again. Real easy to do and get the borders even.
    You know, like all the best ideas, this seems to simple and obvious now, but has never occurred to me before. Thanks.
    I have a photo blog ... and a Flickr ...

  9. #9
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,384
    Images
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I spent hours filing my negative carriers to get the full-frame with black border effect. My mentor from years ago explained that this technique "proved" to all that no cropping was employed in making the print.
    Just to add an annoying note keyline borders (those which occur in full frame printing techniques can be produced on cropped images. its just a second step and a tiny bit of mucking around in the darkroom.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  10. #10
    eddym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,927
    Images
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by David William White View Post
    P.S. Just a comment on Thomas's mentor: What are we, lawyers?
    If so, then where is the law written that it is a sin to crop on the enlarging easel, but not in the viewfinder?
    On the contrary, I consider it pretentious BS.
    Eddy McDonald
    www.fotoartes.com
    Eschew defenestration!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  Ś   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin