Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,840   Posts: 1,582,501   Online: 946
      
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 42
  1. #21
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Central florida,USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,804
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stanworth View Post
    One of the hardest things in printing IMO is to produce subtle high values without them blowing under lighting or looking leaden... while getting all your other values where you want them. I often find I have to go through the hassel of printing a number of shades, quick washing and then drying to allow me to observe the subtle variations that seem to have a huge effect on the balance of the final print.

    When I print a number of slight variations I often find myself becoming blind to the changes in highlihgt density when observing the wet images in the tray. The ability to distinguish the variations in highlght density comes back when I take time away from the prints and the lights and see them afresh. Does anyone else find they become snow blind when working on prints with lots of high key tones, or bright subtle highlights?

    I often find myself printing lighter and lighter only to find that the later, lighter prints, ended up too light. I invariably find the earlier (more dense) prints (printed according to values ascertained from dried test prints) were spot on and I keep getting led astray by what my eyes tell me when the prints are wet. Note that this is the opposite of drydown i.e. my eyes somehow imagine/see more density than is really there with the wet prints.
    Tom

    I think every printer battles this or similar effects. Here is what I do to print with more confidence for the right highlights:

    1. Exposing for the highlights is the best method IMHO.
    2. Never evaluate a wet print in the fixer or the wash.
    3. I hand squeegee the print off and hang it at a dedicated evaluation board.
    4. The board is illuminated with a 100W bulb at 6 feet (EV7).
    5. I use test strips of the same area which have a 1/4" white gap between them. This is how they come out of my test-strip printer.
    6. The white gap is the white reference for me. All highlights are evaluated against it.
    7. I print until my brightest highlights are just above Dmin.
    8. The final conformation is done with a dried test strip (microwave oven), which typically causes me to reduce the exposure by 1/12 stop.
    9. Now let's take care of the shadows with contrast.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  2. #22
    BetterSense's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    2,882
    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    Tom

    I think every printer battles this or similar effects. Here is what I do to print with more confidence for the right highlights:

    1. Exposing for the highlights is the best method IMHO.
    2. Never evaluate a wet print in the fixer or the wash.
    3. I hand squeegee the print off and hang it at a dedicated evaluation board.
    4. The board is illuminated with a 100W bulb at 6 feet (EV7).
    5. I use test strips of the same area which have a 1/4" white gap between them. This is how they come out of my test-strip printer.
    6. The white gap is the white reference for me. All highlights are evaluated against it.
    7. I print until my brightest highlights are just above Dmin.
    8. The final conformation is done with a dried test strip (microwave oven), which typically causes me to reduce the exposure by 1/12 stop.
    9. Now let's take care of the shadows with contrast.
    Did you really mean 1/12 stop? That's such a tiny difference.

    Also, if you use gel filters to adjust contrast, your white point will change along with the shadow density. Do you use a split-grade technique?
    f/22 and be there.

  3. #23
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Central florida,USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,804
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    Did you really mean 1/12 stop? That's such a tiny difference.

    Also, if you use gel filters to adjust contrast, your white point will change along with the shadow density. Do you use a split-grade technique?
    The eye's sensitivity to tonal changes is impressive! Viewed next to each other, differences of 1/24 stop can easily be seen in Zone II or VIII at normal grades (goes down to 1/96 stop in Zone V), but I limit my printing efforts to 1/12 stop to keep it practical.

    I mainly use a dichroic color head and calibrated settings to compensate for the highlight point at Zone VIII shifting with contrast changes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PaperContrastComp2.jpg  
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Masstts. USA
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    273
    If I remeber my correctly, 1/12 stop may be more than 1 JND ("just noticeable difference") but this is not a constant and will change depending on where you are along the brightness curve.
    "Get over it."

  5. #25
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Central florida,USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,804
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by rternbach View Post
    If I remeber my correctly, 1/12 stop may be more than 1 JND ("just noticeable difference") but this is not a constant and will change depending on where you are along the brightness curve.
    Correct!
    However, you can only control two points of the characteristics curve (the rest falls whereever the material and processing characteritics want it to), and one is well advised to control a highlight point with exposure and a shadow point with contrast. Even then, 1/12 stop is not a constant and changes with paper contrast, but it works well for grade 2. nevertheless, the harder the paper, the more sensitive the print is to exposure deviations.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Masstts. USA
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    273
    When you say "Exposing for the highlights is the best method IMHO" and "control a highlight with exposure" are you talking about in the darkroom or in the camera/on the film? I ask because there are those who would disagree with you if you are talking about in camera exposures.
    "Get over it."

  7. #27
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Central florida,USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,804
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by rternbach View Post
    When you say "Exposing for the highlights is the best method IMHO" and "control a highlight with exposure" are you talking about in the darkroom or in the camera/on the film? I ask because there are those who would disagree with you if you are talking about in camera exposures.
    This is my process:

    for film:
    Expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights!

    for paper:
    Expose for the highlights and control the shadows with contrast!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Masstts. USA
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    This is my process:

    for film:
    Expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights!

    for paper:
    Expose for the highlights and control the shadows with contrast!

    Perfectly clear; Thanks!
    "Get over it."

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Masstts. USA
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    273
    And another question: Does everyone do this by exclusively by eye or are there those who find a densitometer or spectrophotometer useful in this process?
    "Get over it."

  10. #30
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Central florida,USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,804
    Images
    1
    I hesitate to admit it, but for years now, I use a densitometer to verify what my eyes and brain have decided. It is my experience that I get more consistency this way. After a long printing session, the body gets tired and everything starts to look 'good enough'. The densitometer keeps me honest and often chases me back into the darkroom saying: 'come on, you can do better than that'.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin