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Thread: yellow staining

  1. #11
    Paul Cocklin's Avatar
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    I don't know what effect (if any) the acid stop bath would have on fixer life with an alkaline fixer like TF4. I have used an acid stop in the past, but didn't on this occasion because I ran out during my last session. I have also printed with only a water stop in the past and never had the staining problem though it's usually been 8x10 size. Perhaps the added square inches of the 11x14 paper carried over much more from developer to stop to fix that I gave it credit for. Though I did drain each sheet fairly well.

  2. #12
    bill spears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cocklin View Post
    TF4 is an alkaline fix.
    Oh .... didn't know that !
    I've never used alkaline fix so probably not qualified to comment. Be interesting to hear what others say

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cocklin View Post
    I did 7 prints. The first 5 were fine; when I placed the 6th
    in the fix and agitated for the first ten seconds then turned
    the lights on, I could see that the safe edge had turned
    a fairly deep yellow.
    So, after ten seconds in the fix lights on. A portion of the
    silver remaining in the emulsion after the ten seconds has
    printed out. Developer is not needed to make a print.

    Before you look for any other solution to your
    problem be sure to finish the fix prior to
    lights on. Dan

  4. #14
    Paul Cocklin's Avatar
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    I understand what you're saying, Dan. my reference to 10 seconds was really just an approximation meant to show that it was before the complete fix cycle had finished. It was probably closer to 30 seconds, and it was really no different than the process I've used over and over again. I've seen fogging from switching the lights on too early and from flashing paper and it's a grey tone (as one would expect). This is decidedly yellow staining. I think it was more a contamination problem than anything else. I'll be sure to use an acid stop, even with TF4, and limit the spill over of developer.

    Thanks!

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cocklin View Post
    I've seen fogging from switching the lights on too early
    and from flashing paper and it's a grey tone (as one
    would expect). This is decidedly yellow staining.
    Not so quick. We are dealing with a specific cause of color
    occurring where it should not. That after a very short fix and
    some exposure to room lighting.

    In order to establish fixer minimums I've conducted many
    paper tests. Under fixed paper after some exposure to room
    light will color. I've seen grays, warm whites, sickly yellows,
    and dirty mustards. I wouldn't have thought the color would
    show as quickly as it did.

    The color varies with paper and color depth depends upon
    the degree of under fixing. What paper are you using?
    I still suggest a straight forward full fixing THEN
    lights on. Ten or a few more seconds? What's
    the rush? Dan

  6. #16
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill spears View Post
    ...it seems a lot of people only use plain water instead of a proper stop bath - I wonder why ??
    I can't figure it out either. Some folks complain about the smell of acid stop and fix. Me, I love the smell of fixer in the morning.

    Along with the odor/irritation problem that some experience, there is also evidence that an alkaline-only process minimizes staining when selenium toning.

    If you carry developer over into the fix you can get staining, especially as silver accumulates in the developer and fix. An acid stop bath puts a stop to that, so to speak.

    With an alkaline fixer it is necessary for a really good rinse between the developer and the fix. It is a good idea to change the rinse water often or use a 2-bath rinse.

    Another fix is to use the fixer one-shot.

    For more on acid-free processing see Lloyd Erlick's web site.
    DARKROOM AUTOMATION
    f-Stop Timers - Enlarging Meters
    http://www.darkroomautomation.com/da-main.htm

  7. #17

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    [QUOTES=Nicholas Lindan;849079]
    "If you carry developer over into the fix you can get staining,
    especially as silver accumulates in .... the fix. An acid stop
    bath puts a stop to that, so to speak.
    With an alkaline fixer it is necessary for a really good rinse
    between the developer and the fix."

    As Lloyd has pointed out a short acid stop bath is no more
    effective at washing out the developer than an equally short
    water rinse. The reason for an acid stop is the acid fix. Save
    for some very rare exceptions an acid stop and acid fixers
    were/ are a necessary marriage. STOPPING I believe is,
    for any practical purpose, equally quick acid or water.

    "Another fix is to use the fixer one-shot."

    My solution; following a very dilute developer a very
    dilute one-shot fix. Drop Stop, Develop - Fix. Dan

  8. #18
    MattKing's Avatar
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    PE has posted on this a number of times.

    Fixers, including alkaline fixers, are designed assuming that acid stop-bath will be used.

    Stop-bath is cheap, and the indicator is the best and most effective tool I know for keeping track of when it's time to refresh or replace my (printing) chemistry.

    If my stop-bath is exhausted, I know at the least it is time to check the fixer too.

    Matt

  9. #19
    Paul Cocklin's Avatar
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    After flattening the prints done that prompted this thread, I've examined them and all of the Kentona sheets have at least a little staining along the safe edges. Is it possible that this is an age of paper issue? The images don't seem to be affected much, if at all.

    I understand about the stop bath, and while I usually do use and acid stop, I'd run out before doing this batch. More is on order. I appreciate everyone's input! Good to know that an acid stop won't really affect the longevity of TF4.

  10. #20
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    What he said.

    Steve
    You guys recycle your stop-bath? I usually just throw 60ml into a 5L container (with water) and one-shot it.

    Although as I do more printing I might reconsider just reusing it. I usually dilute the one shot working solution 1:2 in the tray anyways.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

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