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  1. #21
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVia View Post
    Thomas, that looks great to me. I believe that the shadpow of the power plant on the water anchors the image quite well.
    Exactly!

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  2. #22
    dpurdy's Avatar
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    More important than making rules for what is right is finding a way to keep your vision fresh and your response to your own work unregulated.
    Dennis

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Thank you for your feedback. It seems like the consensus is that max black or strong black is 'nice to have', especially if the scene contains a really dark area. But it's not absolutely necessary, and that depends on the subject matter and how it's captured.

    Which gets me right back to where I started...

    One of the reasons I asked is due to the attached print. To me it perfectly describes what it was like that morning, and reflects my vision of it, while everybody I've shown it to (except my wife, who is my most trusted critique) say they lack black. I'm not saying that either opinion is right or wrong. I'm just saying that it's the luck of the draw to have a taste in what looks good that coincides with what the audience likes.

    - Thomas
    For this image I think you got it right. I notice the lack of a crisp white in the snow more than the lack of a black. But I wouldn't change it. A crisp white and strong black would ruin the mood of the print.

  4. #24

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    My vote goes to full tonal scale print on the right. The greater contrast gives the image the vitality which the highly toned version on the left lacks.

    Morry Katz - Lethbridge

  5. #25
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    Thomas, I know why you've asked this question -- it's something I've been thinking about as well. I had the opportunity over the past three years to visit many of the major photo exhibitions in Paris, where I paid particular interest to exactly this aspect of the pictures. I was surprised in many cases to find the photographs I knew so well had less black than I "remembered" from seeing prints in books, and in most cases the lack of really deep black was not missed. Here's a parallel question - is "contrast" just another way of saying deep blacks and bright whites, or can it be something else?

  6. #26

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    It's been a million years since I printed B&W but my procedure then was to NEVER print quite to D-Max. I selenium toned to deepen shadow areas without losing detail.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    I agree with your wife

    a slight blast of 5 would improve this image as I see it on the screen without affecting the mood.
    I bet the print looks better than the web image...EC

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trask View Post
    ... Here's a parallel question - is "contrast" just another way of saying deep blacks and bright whites, or can it be something else?
    Of course, midtone contrast can be lowered or raised without significant affecting highlights and shadows. Actually some contrast filters in combination with some VC papers don't affect highlight contrast at all, unfortunately.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  9. #29
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    With regard to the toning... This is printed on Fomabrom Variant 112 matte paper, using Ethol LPD developer (replenished).
    When the print is washed, I bleached it in dilute potferri+bromide for about 15 seconds, then toned in the Kodak Sepia II (warm tone) toner back to complete tonal scale.
    On top of a wash, I also dunked the print in selenium 1+4 for about 30 seconds, which gave the maroon color base in the low and mid values.

    Ralph, I think you hit your head on the nail when you mentioned mood. I don't know if you all can see from the uploaded scan, but the 'noise' in the darker areas of the building is snow. It was snowing. It was a quiet morning. Cold. The water was still and calm. I tried to capture that stillness and calm, and the higher contrast version Ralph created just doesn't represent the mood at all.
    But then again, the high contrast looks pretty cool, and more often than not I modify my prints almost beyond recognition of a straight proof print, just to express mood better...

    I think we will all just never agree how prints should be made. I usually like a strong black, but there are exceptions.

    Next time I go into the darkroom I'll try Bob Carnie's suggestion of throwing some high contrast #5 filter at it to gain some definition in the sky, stacks, smoke, and texture of the building.

    If I remember I'll post a scan of the resulting print here.

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #30
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post

    Ralph, I think you hit your head on the nail when you mentioned mood. I don't know if you all can see from the uploaded scan, but the 'noise' in the darker areas of the building is snow. It was snowing. It was a quiet morning. Cold. The water was still and calm. I tried to capture that stillness and calm, and the higher contrast version Ralph created just doesn't represent the mood at all.
    Since there is snow, maximum black would be out of place. See my previous comments.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

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