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Thread: Liquid Light

  1. #11
    arigram's Avatar
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    I tried liquid emulsion the other day (as some of you might know) and it is unfortunately (for my wallet) addictive...
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  2. #12
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ektagraphic View Post
    Is it worth it? How is the quality of the image if it is put on a smooth surface such as wood? What happens with wood soaking up the developer?
    The quality of the image can be very high, close to commercial paper. But of course, the big fun is, to NOT have an image that is perfect.

    Emil is the real expert here on liquid emulsion, see his beautiful work on his website, although he blatantly denies his expert status here in this thread

    This image is using Rollei / Maco Black Magic VC (variabel contrast grade 1-4) liquid emulsion brushed onto paper for acrylic paint, and sepia toned. Personally, I have found the coating and processing difficult at times with liquid emulsion. Especially the risk of emulsion lift-off during wet processing of an exposed print can be high. But maybe this is due to the paper and emulsion / hardening combo I am using. I have never used anything else besides the Rollei stuff. I did waste quite a lot of paper and emulsion trying.

    Emil seems to have quite a bit of succes with his work flow, but of course, I don't know what is left behind in his darkroom and we never see



    Marco
    Last edited by Marco B; 10-10-2009 at 05:29 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  3. #13
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    If you coat on 3D objects then I'd suggest spraying the chemistry, depending on the size of the object a small house-hold plant spray, or the pressurised garden type for much larger things. This is quite economic, it helps to use the developer slightly more dilute than normal.

    You can also spray the emulsion, but you need full fume extraction, airline respirators etc, and a dedicated darkroom, but it can be done.

    Ian

  4. #14
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    For a hardener on most surfaces, I suggest using commercial Glyoxal (40% solution) diluted 1:9 to give a 4% working solution. Add this at the rate of 5 ml / 100 - 200 ml of 10% gelatin content. It will survive processing after drying for about 24 hours. This is for paper or cloth.

    On ceramics or glass, use a 10% chrome alum solution in the same manner as above, but it takes longer to harden. I would let it harden for about a week.

    PE

  5. #15
    gandolfi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    For a hardener on most surfaces, I suggest using commercial Glyoxal (40% solution) diluted 1:9 to give a 4% working solution. Add this at the rate of 5 ml / 100 - 200 ml of 10% gelatin content. It will survive processing after drying for about 24 hours. This is for paper or cloth.

    On ceramics or glass, use a 10% chrome alum solution in the same manner as above, but it takes longer to harden. I would let it harden for about a week.

    PE
    When I use the FOMA emulsion, they are kind enough to add a little bottle of hardener together with the emulsion.

    I always thank them silently, before throwing this hardener away....

    I SO like emulsion unhardened! It makes the processing more fragile, but in the end, it also gives you so much potential/possibillities with the final image...

    (manipulating og the image, after processing - and especially if you want to try bromoil.)

    I have never quite understood the need for hardening......:rolleyes:

    Marco: I am NOT an expert. I have used LE for many years, but I don't know a tenth of what Photo Ingineer does.

    Arigram: to my experience, using Le is actually cheaper, than using normal quality papers! Including the high quality paper I use....

    SO go for it: it is challenging, fun, addictive, and cheap!!

  6. #16
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    On ceramics or glass, use a 10% chrome alum solution in the same manner as above, but it takes longer to harden. I would let it harden for about a week.
    A very timely thread as I have just picked up a bottle of liquid emulsion to coat on to glass. Coated half a dozen sheets with a gelatin/chrome alum solution last night and am hoping to lay down the emulsion this evening. Will 24 hours be sufficient to allow the subbing to dry & harden ?

    Any hints & tips for applying an even coating of emulsion without resorting to puddle pushers or other gadgets ?

    What sort of thickness should we be aiming for ? (kinda thinking along the lines of using a glass rod to spread the emulsion and using tape wrapped round the ends to control the thickness)...

    Presumably, warming the glass plates to around 40°C will give a little more time for the coating to be applied and level out.

  7. #17
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    The undercoat will be hard enough in 24 hours to coat over, but the coated emulsion and undercoat should cure for several days if it is to survive the photo process. A hardening fixer may be used.

    The thickness I am at with about 10% gelatin, is 5 mil wet for the ucoat and 7 mil wet for the emulsion. This depends on the amount of silver present. I prefer to have no ucoat. It adds nothing on glass IMHO and there is one already present in most film supports used for photo purposes.

    A glass puddle pusher or rod wrapped with 2 - 4 layers of adhesive plastic tape will give in the range of 5 - 10 mil. (this is 0.005 - 0.010 inches btw). But, the tape abrades quickly and you have to keep replacing it. The usual method for plates is to pour the emulsion on the plate and rock the plate to spread the emulsion. A paintbrush can spread it on paper. Marco has shown us that here. Either way or devise something new.

    I have posted pictures of the pour method here on APUG in a complete series, courtesy of Mark Osterman of GEH.

    And, I like hardened emulsions as unhardened ones are so unpredictable!

    PE

  8. #18
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
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    Thanks for that info on wet thickness - Using sticky tape had crossed my mind and I can measure it to within ±0.001mm (±0.04mils). At present, I only intend to coat half a dozen 5x4 plates over the course of a week, so wear & tear on the tape should not be an issue.

    (Had seen the photos of the pour method and youtube commentary on puddle pusher, but nothing on film thickness).

  9. #19
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gandolfi View Post
    Marco: I am NOT an expert. I have used LE for many years, but I don't know a tenth of what Photo Ingineer does.
    Emil, I don't have a tenth of PE's photographic chemistry and emulsion knowledge either, but, you are the one person here on APUG that has undoubtedly and repeatedly shown us that you know how to practically and creatively use liquid emulsion to its full and astonishing potential... in that respect, you definitely ARE the expert on liquid emulsion here on APUG.

    Marco
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  10. #20
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    And, I like hardened emulsions as unhardened ones are so unpredictable!
    PE
    Yes, but can, as Emil suggest, a hardened emulsion no longer be used in bromoil? That is another process I would once like to try... good to know this beforehand.

    Well, probably, it is only less flexible, as commercial papers are hardened as well, but still usable in bromoil as I understood it from what I've read about bromoil so far.

    So, Emil, what is it that you find better about the unhardened LE in bromoil? Better swelling of the matrix with better contrast?
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

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