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  1. #51

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    Thanks, I am a new, maybe I can learn a lot skills form this post.

    I have add this post to bookmark!!

  2. #52
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Keep it simple stupid KISS PRINTING.

    Lately I have noticed a lot of threads popping up on printing and film developing here on APUG... that is a good sign yes/no for all us printers. I have also
    noticed a lot of people pounding their chests about their methods,, how to take notes,, the value of notes,, Zone system gurus talking
    about how one needs to chart before they can print.... MYSELF INCLUDED.

    One thing I think that is missing is good old fashion LOOKING and OBSERVING and then MODIFYING.


    Kodak has told us for years , what to look for in a negative on a light box, can you read a newspaper through the highlights, is there information in the shadow area.
    -Well Kodak was right dammit.. you should stop complicating your life and just look at the negative and observe, understand then modify.
    A negative is easy to understand if you can read a newspaper through it.


    If a timer is so complicated that you need a manual to understand how to use it , are you printing or are you operating a timer
    I use a simple gray lab timer 450 and I see no need for anything else. The timer is a damm tool and if it is more complicated than the enlarger itself then
    you are spending too much time learning something that is bla-se.


    The print will tell you if it needs more tone or less tone, you just have to LOOK AND OBSERVE then MODIFY your approach the timer only starts the exposure and stops it.

    I have used the same dodging and burning tools including my hands for 37 years. I do not need any stinken complicated masks to make a print or
    silly odd shaped tools, by adjusting the angle of your arm you can turn a circle into an egg, you can use your hands to filter in the light within the image
    and you can use your hands to create box shapes on the outside.. KISS.

    Split Grade Printing is basically using a low contrast filter and a high contrast filter, with a bunch of prints you will figure it out and how to MODIFY your results.


    As you may gather I hate note taking , curves, complicated equipment..

    I believe in looking at the negative, looking at the easel, watch the print emerge, and decide where tone is needed, areas of where you want to lead the eye too are very important and that my friends is what the dodge and burn tool is all about.
    Where there should be more contrast to entice to viewer to ogle.

    I also encourage printers not to copy past prints, Ie screw the notes or the silly print maps, and actually make a new print each time.
    As a printmaker for others it should be noted that I will not match other printers prints for clients, and even within my own prints for my clients I will never match a print as I am hoping that I get better each day and why would I want to match something I did before, it may be inferior..Yes/NO

    Most important observe your subject and lighting and understand how lighting ratios and negative / print ratios work.

  3. #53
    Dinesh's Avatar
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    Bob, you have to remember that most people do not have 37 years experience in the darkroom.

    What may seem simple and easy for you, may be difficult for others (most notably me).
    Kick his ass, Sea Bass!

  4. #54
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    You caught me on my Saturday morning rant.. I am not aiming this at specific people but all the new printers that I see coming on this site.

    You are a pretty good printer btw, I have one of yours on the wall at home... well I put it beside the Mc Cutchen every time you two come over so you both feel good.

    I pretty much learned the hard part of dodge and burn very early, its taken a few years to refine, but its amazing to me that Kodak nailed it with their simple books on printmaking... then came the Zonies and made it all complicated.

  5. #55

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    hi bob

    there are always people that make simple stuff complicated.
    i once heard a lecture by a former photo prof about how to use photo flo .

    instead of saying " when you have your film processed, you add a few drops to the cylinder / tank
    and drag your film through it and then hang it to dry"
    he gave a speech about how the water had to look like it was beading off the top, how you had to slosh the film
    through several times, then wack the tank ( as in air bubble release ) then slowly add water to the top
    until all the foam spilled down the side and slowly reaching in pulling each rollout as if
    the tank was giving birth, never to be touched by human skin again
    ... it was a 15-20 minute dramatic lecture

    kind of complicated for a simple process ...

    i couldn't agree more simple is good ..

  6. #56
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Thanks John

    If you do not know what a good negative is supposed to look like then get out the Kodak books.

    Pyro negs are not misleading either same idea, can you read the newspaper through the highlights and is there info in the shadows.
    If so you have a good negative to print.

  7. #57
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    Good stuff, Bob. Just one question: what's a newspaper?
    Seriously I think getting into all the technology stuff is just a way to avoid answering questions like "what do I want it to look like?" and such which are subjective / artistic questions that you have to work out for yourself and that can be difficult. So plot some curves instead.

  8. #58
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Its an ancient way of communicating with others.

  9. #59
    David Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinesh View Post
    Bob, you have to remember that most people do not have 37 years experience in the darkroom.

    What may seem simple and easy for you, may be difficult for others ...
    I think Bob's ideas are particularly important for beginners. They should try and keep the process as simple as possible. It is my not-so-humble-opinion that printing is intuitive. It cannot be fully successfully automated, or reduced to a complex formula (no irony there). Still, for those who can't get "intuit", perhaps a few tools and formulas will allow them to make acceptable prints. But (again IMHO) until one begins to rely on their eyes, they'll never make great prints.

    YMMV

  10. #60
    Bruce Osgood's Avatar
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    CARNIES' POST #52

    The best damn advice you will ever get! You don't need 37 years to learn it.



 

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