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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by 36cm2 View Post
    I have that Bartlett book (among many many other printing tutorial books) and can attest that it's one of the best out there.
    Just bought it on Amazon (used as not in current print). Thanks for the suggestion.

  2. #12

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    I've been thinking about this dodging and burning of multiple areas and I think it's like a performance. You have the choreography stage where you plan it all out, then there's the dress rehearsal when you give it a dry run before finally the performance itself in front of light sensitive paper.
    Steve.

  3. #13
    ann
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    Good, I think you will find that book very helpful and fun to look at as well.
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  4. #14
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    Continuing with the musical analogy, much like a musician in a studio, it is easy to fall into the trap of doing "one more take", and endlessly tweaking details until there there is no appreciable improvement over the previous attempt. I personally know musicians who have said the following, (at 3:00 A.M.) "I still think I liked take two the best." You have to know when to call it a day (or call it a print) and walk away, or you can end up carpeting your darkroom floor with "imperfect" prints.

    Aim to improve specific things in a print, but if it's not coming, it just might not be in the negative.

    By the way, if you do have a recalcitrant print that just won't tune in on that final detail, (and if you've got paper to burn) spend some time setting the base exposure (and contrast - sometimes a difficult print is more a contrast problem than anything) for that section alone, without any other print controls. Once you have determined if it is possible to achieve your desired results on that, you can build the rest of your print around that success point.

    One final point from me, (I'm just an average printer who has had more than my share of frustrations in the darkroom, and a handful of lucky prints that made me feel like I'm not an idiot) advice asked and given is all great; the workflows suggested by your peers here and in whole photographic libraries are all very effective. But take it all with a grain of salt. Sometimes even the finest printers have their heads up their arse when they try to explain what they do. If Adams says one thing, Weston another, and Ann something else, (sorry Ann ) it does not mean two of them are wrong. It means what they do gives them the results they are looking for.

    Cheers,
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  5. #15
    ann
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    No problem toffle, as you make a valued point.

    I also suggest to people, pick one voice and listen to only one as there are various ways to do things and each of us have our own way that we have prcfective over time and with practice. Of course there are some things that are the same. i.d. an fstop is an fstop. but how' to's vary,.

    Also, for me, I want to see the work before I buy into the voice. Lots of folks talk, but can they walk the talk. If the mouth doesn't match the mouth my ears shut down.
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toffle View Post
    You have to know when to call it a day (or call it a print) and walk away, or you can end up carpeting your darkroom floor with "imperfect" prints.

    Along that line, John Sexton said in an interview once that one of the most important items in his darkroom is the trash can.

  7. #17
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPorter View Post
    Along that line, John Sexton said in an interview once that one of the most important items in his darkroom is the trash can.
    Agreed, though in my case it is a large photocopy box; I seldom empty it, and I refer to it often. I find my mistakes are often better teaching tools than my successful prints.
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  8. #18
    ann
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    In my classes we call it the "learning bin".
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  9. #19
    ROL
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    Quote Originally Posted by perkeleellinen View Post
    I've been thinking about this dodging and burning of multiple areas and I think it's like a performance. You have the choreography stage where you plan it all out, then there's the dress rehearsal when you give it a dry run before finally the performance itself in front of light sensitive paper.
    Excerpted from my article (AA's concept):

    Fine art printing really begins with a negative correctly exposed for the subject/scene. To paraphrase Ansel Adams' famous musical analogy - the negative is the score, the print is the performance. It will be difficult or impossible to ever work a fine print from a poorly exposed negative (in darkroom vernacular, to make it sing). If the notes are there, it will be possible to achieve your unique artistic interpretation (i.e., visualization)...

    Quote Originally Posted by CPorter View Post
    Along that line, John Sexton said in an interview once that one of the most important items in his darkroom is the trash can.
    Adams' (who Sexton worked with) quote, I believe, regarding the most important tool in his darkroom.


    It all seems to go back to AA, which is why I cannot recommend highly enough The Negative & The Print for learning basic B/W darkroom technique.

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