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  1. #21
    schrochem's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments. I am definitely going to be exploring the toning route. I have MT3 right now but ordering some thiocarbamide so I can fine tune ratios at minimal expense.
    I think the main color I'm after is a shade of raw umber, but I also think a hint of green is also needed.

    Doing some googling I found a thread on LFF where someone (Jan Brzeski)had used fomatone for this gallery. However, the dilution was much, much less at 1:1:12 to 1:1:14 and said at 1:1:18 it got too orange/pink in his opinion. I do want to stay away from the orange and pinks....
    Anyone here printed fomatone at that strong of solution?

    For me to conceivably attempt that I would have to order some arista concentrate powder to be able to afford it. On the freestyle website they even mention the 1:14 dilution.
    Scott

  2. #22
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    I have this 'feeling' in my head but can't quite put my finger on what makes it like that.
    Having created many more prints I think part of it is in the shadows. I don't want deep cold blacks.
    I want speckly, warm shadows. I think there is a fine line there....I don't want it to looked fogged or washed out but prominent.
    I think the link to that gallery in the post above had some good examples of it. I have noticed that I even like the greenish blacks.
    I guess the 'look' I'm trying to achieve is stippled, greenish, warm shadows and warmish ochre, raw umberish highlights....
    Sheesh, sounds like a description from a fashion show or something ;-)
    If I can kick up the grain in the shadows (just enough) I think I can accomplish this with MGWT.
    I did like fomabrom but it's just too much grain for this particular look I trying to create.
    Scott

  3. #23
    Mark Fisher's Avatar
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    I dunno....you can get the green shadows, no problem. Grain.....it is the least grainy lith paper I know of. Here is what I typically have managed to get from it using Maco/Labor Partner/Rollei or Moersch SE5. Fomatone using fresh developer might bet you what you are looking for. The old Forte warmtone is pretty much exactly what you are looking for.
    Your first 10,000 pictures are the worst - HCB

    www.markjamesfisher.com

  4. #24
    schrochem's Avatar
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    Thanks Mark. Yes I'm just looking for subtle grain like in the link (very cool print). Same goes for the subtleness of the green or ochre or whatever color I can't describe ;-)
    It's just the one particular look I'm after but I'm finding others along the way.....
    Scott

  5. #25
    schrochem's Avatar
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    Are the following points true (in general and dependent on paper) to shift toward warmer tones?
    -higher dilution
    -which needs more light
    -early snatch (not to deep cold blacks)
    -exhausted dev (or just add Br?)

    Thanks
    Scott

  6. #26
    Mark Fisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrochem View Post
    Are the following points true (in general and dependent on paper) to shift toward warmer tones?
    -higher dilution
    -which needs more light
    -early snatch (not to deep cold blacks)
    -exhausted dev (or just add Br?)

    Thanks
    From my experience, getting warmer prints depends mostly on the paper chosen, but the developer and the "age" of the developer have a big effect also. I only use 1:1:50 plus 33% old developer unless I really want something less warm...then I don't add the old brown and keep the developer fresh. I've also found that a developer like Arista Liquid is less warm than Moersch or Rollei. More light means lower contrast and early snatch just means that the blacks aren't fully formed. It might effect the warmness (never noticed), but it would sacrifice the contrast and blacks so better to use other techniques to get the tone you want. The only way to really see for yourself, though, is to burn some paper...(:
    Your first 10,000 pictures are the worst - HCB

    www.markjamesfisher.com

  7. #27
    schrochem's Avatar
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    I guess I've become a bit obsessive with this..... ;-)
    Well i sure burned some paper last night for 6 hours.
    In the end it was all just playing because I was messing with developer.
    BUT it was certainly a learning experience. I got some very interesting results.
    A few were great but just didn't have that 'pop'
    I'll explain more in the MGWT thread about the developer issue.
    Scott

  8. #28
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Post toning has a incredible effect on colour as Mr G pointed out here or on the other thread. Night and day results.. If you want warm, pick up some Kentona somehow.. now that is a paper that develops out warm.

  9. #29
    schrochem's Avatar
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    I look forward to toning..... I've tried but the results have been weird. After bleaching the tone won't come all the way back. The brightest highlights remain bleached. Selenium works though.
    Hopefully weirdness with the development has something to do with it. I have some mt3 and some homebrew thio waiting in the wind.
    Scott

  10. #30
    schrochem's Avatar
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    One of the main problems I was having last night was the mids were getting too dark. If I didn't keep going there was a foggy look to the print. Weird ass developer aside, I read that pre-flashing might have helped with this. Since I'm contact printing it wouldn't be that hard to do. How long though....? If my exposure is 10secs, how bout 10secs flash (same light source)?
    If I have this in my head right, the flash will give the highlights and mids a bit of a head start? Which in effect will pull them further away from the blacks?
    Thanks for all the help with this. I love experimentation but also like to understand why I'm doing it ;-)
    Scott

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