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  1. #1
    Davec101's Avatar
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    Irving Penn Notebooks 'Pigment and Porcelain' notes

    Whilst going through Penn's notebooks on platinum printing that can be found online at the Ryerson & Burnham Archives.

    I came acorss his notes on 'Pigment and Porcelain' http://digital-libraries.saic.edu/cd...n/mqc/id/15080

    It says 'This notebook contains tests and details concerning Irving Penn's experiments in printing photographs on porcelainized plates using a pigment process'

    Have yet to make head nor tail of it yet but will post more when i can. My initial thoughts are that he was making a colour image with platinum and palladium and colour pigments.
    Last edited by Davec101; 09-04-2012 at 10:04 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Platinum Printing Editions http://www.dceditions.com
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    Alternative Photographic Processes blog http://altphotoblog.com/

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    Dave, slightly off topic but do you understand his notes on page 83 titled "Lab Worksheet"? I presume its multiple exposures per print with platinum formulaes - ratio method? Would also guess he pre-soaked his paper so could properly register each exposure.
    van Huyck Photo
    "Progress is only a direction, and it's often the wrong direction"

  3. #3
    Davec101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughowk View Post
    Dave, slightly off topic but do you understand his notes on page 83 titled "Lab Worksheet"? I presume its multiple exposures per print with platinum formulaes - ratio method? Would also guess he pre-soaked his paper so could properly register each exposure.
    Van, do you have a direct link to page 83, there are so many notes that its taking a while to go through. He was using multiple exposures with multiple negatives, more specfically :

    'The separation of the enlarged negative image into the basic negative + a highlight mask + 1 or 2 overprintings for the shadows gives enormous scope to the printing possibilities. The image is in effect reassembled in an altered relationship of the components.'

    I dont believe he was pre-soaking according to his notes, as to properly register each exposure he bonded the printing paper to aluminum, you should see a mention of 'Surelyn' in some of the notes which was the bond he used created by Dupont.
    Platinum Printing Editions http://www.dceditions.com
    The Art of Platinum Printing Blog http://artofplatinum.wordpress.com/
    Alternative Photographic Processes blog http://altphotoblog.com/

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    Dave, haven't visited the page you provided yet, BUT, as a first impression, "...printing photographs on porcelainized plates using a pigment process..." sounds very much something like enamel photography to me...

    Regards,
    Loris.

  5. #5
    Davec101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loris Medici View Post
    Dave, haven't visited the page you provided yet, BUT, as a first impression, "...printing photographs on porcelainized plates using a pigment process..." sounds very much something like enamel photography to me...

    Regards,
    Loris.
    Thanks for the link Loris, did they use platinum and palladium for that technique? Penn seemed quite interested in it there is almost 80 pages of notes.

    P.S Still have not got around to trying that paper you kindly sent me!! Sorry about that. Is it still working well for you?
    Platinum Printing Editions http://www.dceditions.com
    The Art of Platinum Printing Blog http://artofplatinum.wordpress.com/
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    Dear David,

    I don't think they were using any noble metals for enamel photography...

    Yes, the paper always worked well for me. I like its brightness and the deep blacks it gives to me...

    Regards,
    Loris.

  7. #7
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Dave Loris and others

    Has any one here have success with carbon over palladium?

    As well Dave thank you for the link to the notes, I have not had any time of late and I will get to them.
    Do you think Mr Penn had any success with carbon over platinum?

    I visited Sandy K last month after an intense PS course in Atlanta, I took down some platinum on silver gelatin that Craig K from Manitoba supplied me.
    We were able to lay down a second hit of carbon quite successfully and as well we did some gelatin coating on rag paper.

    My friend John Bentley (toronto based) who makes full colour carbons is telling me that gelatin and platinum palladium do not work well together but our test and that
    of Craig's palladium over fixed out silver gelatin photo paper seem to prove him wrong.. any thoughts on overcoating pt pd with gelatin for carbon transfer??

    I am at an interesting stage with all my testing, we have successfully made silver negatives to size required, and have separated into many different hits or layers if you will.
    We have mounted rag paper to aluminum and have made registered prints.
    At Sandy's we made colour tissue with no issues .
    We also have made very nice contact prints to 20 x24 size on Ilford Warmtone Paper, that have a wonderful quality.

    I have scanned a series of images and have a bundle of multiple negs to print , its time to pull it all together and make a grouping of portfolio prints.
    I am convinced that carbon over palladium is the way to go , but John's nagging warning is in the back of my mind and I am wondering
    about the success rate of applying gelatin over pt pd.
    At this point I am not using inkjet negs , but real silver negs, I feel I can get better detail resolution, as well better blocking power, making the negatives are more intuitive for me as I am use to looking at negatives ,rather than plotting curves to make my images and this method seems to work well for me.

    Sandy has led me down an interesting path when making multiple hits, and I will have to try his way of a single transfer and peel vs the multiple wettings that I planned to put the base image on aluminum through.


    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughowk View Post
    Dave, slightly off topic but do you understand his notes on page 83 titled "Lab Worksheet"? I presume its multiple exposures per print with platinum formulaes - ratio method? Would also guess he pre-soaked his paper so could properly register each exposure.

    His platinum prints were mounted on aluminum sheets and the aluminum was pin registered. He told me that he did multiple exposures and that each print took him as much as 20 hours to make.

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    Patrick Robert James's Avatar
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    I seem to recall reading in some obscure place that Penn used a metal other than platinum (or palladium) in his platinum prints as a layer if I remember correctly. I am not a platinum printer so the info didn't stick but I thought I would throw it out there for you guys.

  10. #10
    Davec101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Robert James View Post
    I seem to recall reading in some obscure place that Penn used a metal other than platinum (or palladium) in his platinum prints as a layer if I remember correctly. I am not a platinum printer so the info didn't stick but I thought I would throw it out there for you guys.
    Iridium was the other nobel metal he used.
    Platinum Printing Editions http://www.dceditions.com
    The Art of Platinum Printing Blog http://artofplatinum.wordpress.com/
    Alternative Photographic Processes blog http://altphotoblog.com/

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