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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loris Medici View Post
    Hi Stan, great news.

    About the colder tone; could be the acid is breaking some of the original size in the paper (or fibres to some extent) and letting the paper retain more moisture than usual, leading to colder tones. Do you get more whisper / printout (and speed) than usual? I noticed that sulfamic acid treated papers become a little more absorbent than non-treated ones...

    Regards,
    Loris.
    Hi Loris,

    I'm not sure if it is breaking some of the original size/fibers that is yielding these cooler tones. I just finished a project w/ sulfamic using Rives BFK and this paper as well yielded cooler tones. Rives is a printmaking paper w/ little size in comparison to Arches WC which has quite a bit of size, so I suspect not? What is 'whisper'. Since I can't compare arches WC and rives for speed/printout because I didn't have anything to compare it using my old ways. I could say that in the past I have printed on BFK w/ oxalic acid treatment but could not achieve the Dmax I am getting w/ sulfamic.

  2. #52

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    Hi again,

    If you're washing the papers after dealkalization w/ sulfamic acid, the cooler tones should be caused by some physical effect of the treatment, not because some chemical effects - since you remove the sulfamic acid from the paper by washing it. That was the key of my reasoning. If the treatment makes the paper retain more moisture, you'll get cooler tones, better dmax, more printout and faster speed.

    Best regards,
    Loris.

    P.S. Whisper / whisper image is the incomplete printout (in the darktones) with dop pt/pd, it's a term borrowed from Christopher James' alt-process book. Don't know if anyone else was using this term before - apparently not.
    Last edited by Loris Medici; 02-24-2014 at 08:02 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Added P.S.

  3. #53

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    OK, great! I'm going to be testing on the new Fab Artistico Traditional which is an off white paper, 90lb in a few days to see if I what kind of results it yields, I'll post.

  4. #54
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    Hi Stan,

    Thank you for sharing your experience with various papers, your feedback is quite valuable. I will look into Arches paper, I think I can find it locally.
    I had the chance to treat a few Arches HP papers with sulfamic acid, just to show the procedure to a friend.
    My friend used modern cyanotype with those papers, and they worked as expected However I did not had the chance to test that paper entirely.


    Best Regards
    Serdar

  5. #55

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    Well no luck with Fabriano Artistico Traditional 200gsm w/ 10% sulfamic. I keep hoping to use this paper again because i love the slight warm off white it comes in. Cannot get a good black, upon close inspection it is grainy. I'm going to go with the Arches 185gsm HP/WC white for this next project. It has worked out very well.

    Stan

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sklimek View Post
    Well no luck with Fabriano Artistico Traditional 200gsm w/ 10% sulfamic. I keep hoping to use this paper again because i love the slight warm off white it comes in. Cannot get a good black, upon close inspection it is grainy. I'm going to go with the Arches 185gsm HP/WC white for this next project. It has worked out very well.

    Stan
    Hello Stan,

    I have tested FATW HP 200gsm (the reason I started a search for alternative acid) and later 300gsm, both papers gave poor dmax. FATW HP with or without acid treatment gives mediocre dmax even with traditional cyanotype, and vandyke brown. After SA procedure that did not change. In terms of argyrotype on FATW 200gsm, the blacks were worse than a single coat VDB on untreated canson montval.
    I got better results with ordinary papers such as canson montval and schoellershammer duramatt compared to FATW HP papers. Although I liked its off-white color and the subtle texture on the reverse side of the paper, I must say it is a disappointment for siderotypes. I have tested traditional and modern cyanotype, vdb, argyrotype and salt prints too ( it is not a siderotype but I have tested it). Even salt prints was not satisfactory in terms of dmax. Considering that you have tested a DOP procedure, I believe we can assume that paper is not good for alt. processes except for gum and similar pigment processes.

    On the other hand FAEW SP 300gsm papers are simply magnificent. I would like to hear your opinion on that paper, if you would have time to test it.

    Regards
    Serdar

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzeleid View Post
    Hello Stan,

    I have tested FATW HP 200gsm (the reason I started a search for alternative acid) and later 300gsm, both papers gave poor dmax. FATW HP with or without acid treatment gives mediocre dmax even with traditional cyanotype, and vandyke brown. After SA procedure that did not change. In terms of argyrotype on FATW 200gsm, the blacks were worse than a single coat VDB on untreated canson montval.
    I got better results with ordinary papers such as canson montval and schoellershammer duramatt compared to FATW HP papers. Although I liked its off-white color and the subtle texture on the reverse side of the paper, I must say it is a disappointment for siderotypes. I have tested traditional and modern cyanotype, vdb, argyrotype and salt prints too ( it is not a siderotype but I have tested it). Even salt prints was not satisfactory in terms of dmax. Considering that you have tested a DOP procedure, I believe we can assume that paper is not good for alt. processes except for gum and similar pigment processes.

    On the other hand FAEW SP 300gsm papers are simply magnificent. I would like to hear your opinion on that paper, if you would have time to test it.

    Regards
    Serdar
    Hey Serdar, I agree with everything you said, time to let go of FATW. I'll try some of those papers you mentioned. BTW in my testing with BFK (good results), Arches WC/HP (good results) and FATW (bad results) I too have found the back of the paper more favorable...

    Stan

  8. #58

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    I will try out Fab Artistico Extra white 300gsm - thanx...

  9. #59
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    I like to try BFK rives but those papers are not available locally, I would have to order them from off-shore. But I will try arches again, I liked the velvety surface of the hot press variety.

    I think FAEW HP's surface texture would be identical to traditional white, but I haven't tried it. I would especially recommend soft press variety. It has a visible texture and yet the tooth of the paper is almost flat like hot pressed papers. I find it hard to explain There is minimal height difference between the peaks and the dents of its surface. Its textures effect on the print is quite subtle I am guessing you might like the surface.

    Regards
    Serdar

  10. #60

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    Ditto, I print 8x10" pop pd on FEAW/SP and the texture isn't disturbing even at this small print size. I reckon it's a matter of taste, but I'm not much in fond of too textured papers and FAEW/SP OK to me at >= 8x10" print size. The dmax and tonality is great. See one example here.

    Regards,
    Loris.



 

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