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  1. #11
    clayne's Avatar
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    I presume you're running into the CLS yellow layer?
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    I presume you're running into the CLS yellow layer?
    Yes but also other issues, but the other issues I think are part of not enough fixing...


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  3. #13
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    Well, negs are definitely dark due to the CLS layer. You need some kind of light bleach to remove this without removing the rest of the silver. Fixing comes along with bleaching in that it removes rehalogenated silver (which bleach gives you) in all cases.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    Well, negs are definitely dark due to the CLS layer. You need some kind of light bleach to remove this without removing the rest of the silver. Fixing comes along with bleaching in that it removes rehalogenated silver (which bleach gives you) in all cases.
    Sometimes I just feel plain dumb.

    I'm not a chemist and often I know for example a year ago I read and participated in such threads but didn't understand any of it.

    Now I SORT of understand some. The way I learn is not the traditional way and it takes me a while I absorb it and I really need to DO it to retain it. Not a memorizer...

    I don't really even know what rehalogenate means.

    I'm also still confused how adding citric acid to fixer makes it a bleach. I got to talk to my dad (the chemist/physicist) and he said something about bleach might be an oxidizer of some kind and adding citric acid to a base can have different effects than adding it to an alkali and that might be why the citric acid in fixer makes it a bleach, but not having worked in chemistry for over 30 years he's forgotten a lot.


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  5. #15
    clayne's Avatar
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    Bleach rehalogenates developed silver back into silver halide which you cannot see (for the most part). This is then redevelopable with any developer. On the same token it is also a candidate for removal by fixing. If you bleach a print or film and put it back into developer it'll come right back. One can do this countless times. However if you bleach a print or film and put it into fixer, then the fixer does it's job and removes all undeveloped (which rehalogenated silver is) silver from the print or film. To rehalogenate means to re-halide hence silver->silver halide. All film and paper is silver halide based. If you use a dilute bleach you can rehalogenate only light density silver while leaving the rest relatively unaffected. CLS is part of this light density mask of silver.

    I'll let someone else comment on the citric acid part.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    Bleach rehalogenates developed silver back into silver halide which you cannot see (for the most part). This is then redevelopable with any developer. On the same token it is also a candidate for removal by fixing. If you bleach a print or film and put it back into developer it'll come right back. One can do this countless times. However if you bleach a print or film and put it into fixer, then the fixer does it's job and removes all undeveloped (which rehalogenated silver is) silver from the print or film. To rehalogenate means to re-halide hence silver->silver halide. All film and paper is silver halide based. If you use a dilute bleach you can rehalogenate only light density silver while leaving the rest relatively unaffected. CLS is part of this light density mask of silver.

    I'll let someone else comment on the citric acid part.
    That was helpful, thanks, that also made a lot of sense and I'm STARTING to get "this whole film thing" but I'll have to re-read this in the morning.


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  7. #17
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    That was helpful, thanks, that also made a lot of sense and I'm STARTING to get "this whole film thing" but I'll have to re-read this in the morning.
    The one thing to remember is this: it's all just a big silver-based game.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  8. #18

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    Stone,

    The bleach described in http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consu...s/pdf/ae31.pdf is a actually a weak bleach/fix designed to remove the CLS 'stain'. Note the comment: "Stop bleaching if reduction of the silver image becomes apparent. It is better to leave a little stain than to lose the silver image."

    CLS (Carey Lee Silver) is colloidal silver used as a filter layer.

  9. #19
    AgX
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    Stone, what you call base colour differs on the rebates from the rest of the film strip in your sample.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof_Pixel View Post
    Stone,

    The bleach described in http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consu...s/pdf/ae31.pdf is a actually a weak bleach/fix designed to remove the CLS 'stain'. Note the comment: "Stop bleaching if reduction of the silver image becomes apparent. It is better to leave a little stain than to lose the silver image."

    CLS (Carey Lee Silver) is colloidal silver used as a filter layer.
    so you bleach in daylight?

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