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Thread: Woodburytype

  1. #1
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Woodburytype

    Traditional Woodburytype is requiries having metal mold .

    Woodburytype is using 1/8 inch or 3 mm thick gelatin at the start. Lets say the relief is 2 mm thick. And than without pressing it to lead , we can mold it with extra hard silicon ,epoxy or rubber.

    - Because of polymer is more elastic , especially rubber , it would be easier to print with less force. But I am not clear whether a very hard or very soft mold is better. I think flexography is using rubber. Could flexible mold creates sharp images ? I think yes because mit prints ic circuit with hand stamp but it is 2d ?

    - Why woodbury type requires huge press , is it about flexing the lead mold in to flat when printing ? Or reverse , flexing the paper in to the relief
    grooves ?

    Umut

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    Woodbury has been commercially revived in NYC using lead. We looked into doing it here via something like an epoxy composite, but everyone
    potentially interested backed off due to the environmental regulations involved as well as the inherent health risks of working with either lead
    or epoxy. I don't know what they're currently using under the press to give the right effect. I might be wrong, but am of the understanding that
    the antique version of the process used a very dense cut of live oak wood for the right combination of strength and resilience. Great pressure
    is needed. A softer medium to hold the ink itself would be incapable of the excellent rendition of both detail and continuous tone that woodbury
    is noted for. But a potential alternative to lead is certainly food for thought. A complete endrun to Woodbury is to etch the plates with laser;
    and that is something being done around here for very high-quality (and expensive) image printing, way beyond the league of inkjet.

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    Hexavalent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Traditional Woodburytype is requiries having metal mold .

    Woodburytype is using 1/8 inch or 3 mm thick gelatin at the start. Lets say the relief is 2 mm thick. And than without pressing it to lead , we can mold it with extra hard silicon ,epoxy or rubber.


    Umut
    The relief is likey not that deep. It is essentially a carbon-transfer print that is pressed into lead (and other materials) to create a a relief that could accent pigmented gelatin which could then be transfered to paper.The actual printing on paper did not require the same massive pressure as required to make the orignal lead "master".

    The "Stannotype" (and a few other later processes) took it a step further by electrotyping the gelatin relief so that it could be used directly, without having to make a lead mold.
    - Ian

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    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Drew,

    I researched epoxy guitar making and boat building more than 25 years. Epoxy is harmful but I am aware there is water solvent epoxies , they only emit water vapour. Etching metal with laser is one way or etching ceramic with lasers are used in flexography method. If you visit a flexo packaging printing house , they would help with the technology.

    But water based epoxy , hard rubber - used at flexo for least 80 years - or silicon - it can be very soft to hard that a hand sized one can carry 8 tons of load- are the options. I think using laser to etch metal is to use atomic bomb to kill a fly. Unnecessary , foolish forcing the technology.

    If you are not happy with the qualities of epoxy , there are companies which can tailor a epoxy for your need.

    Things come to my mind,

    - Epoxy could release high heat and damage the gelatin when curing. Alternative , very slowly curing hardener part.

    - Commercial epoxy would stretch during curing and there is special epoxies never strech - not from the harbour repair shop WEST epoxy- could be used.

    - Mold release is not good idea , covers the micro details.

    - Epoxy would stick to gelatin , silicon never sticks to anything and healthy , widely available than epoxy and half price the best one.

    - Silicon polymer is used at fusion experiments , biology with their excellent capacity to record one pattern and carry to other way.

    Other downside of epoxy is to mix it correctly , it must be an experienced person , if you do least error , it does not set and ruin your gelatin.

    Some epoxies are in need of autoclave , boat or aircraft epoxies set at room temperature but some does not. Autoclave operation is very expensive and if you go to commecial places , epoxy might stay in big oven for 48 hours at 60 celcius to set. You must know what you are using.

    And finally it is extremelly harmful to lungs , eyes and skins if you use boat , aircraft building one.
    Ian,

    I am aware about electroplating , %90 of american bronze sculptures done by electroplating of copper on plaster positive mold. Its a good idea but not necessary today.

    Umut
    Last edited by Mustafa Umut Sarac; 09-25-2013 at 12:03 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Drew , Check Schelling for your tailored epoxy.

    Umut

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    Thanks, but I have direct contact with appropriate epoxy chemists, since our company here is a significant distributor of such things. The
    hypothetical project got derailed once the category got preempted by a specialty house in NYC, where the enviro rules are less stringent than here; and like I said, none of us want our own health compromised even on an R&D basis. The actual people involved here do have laser etching capabilities of up to 20 ft wide, which brings these processes into a completely different league of potential clients. But their minimum setup charge per image or print or whatever you want to call it, is $40,000 dollars - in other words, if you can't sell a photograph for six or seven figures, they don't want your business (unless you just happen to be an interesting neighborhood artist, in which case they might do it for free). They're basically hired guns for big museum and public installations. But we're all aging a bit, so have to pick and choose our battles a little more carefully than we used to.

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    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    But we're all aging a bit, so have to pick and choose our battles a little more carefully than we used to.
    Agree, I am posting these posts and at the same time I am thinking how to survive if my mother passes. I think I will build a micro house at somewhere or buy a box like 70s land rover and turn it to home.
    These are my last years in comfort and as you know I am like a chicken gives eggs every morning. I think I am looking for holy grail , everyday I am nearing it but same time future is warning me.
    Umut

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    Umut;

    Barrett Oliver is a world class expert on Woodburytype, and has lectured and taught this subject. He has also written a history of it and you may find more details on different possible methods in his book or on-line under his name.

    PE

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    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Thank you PE.

    I am happy You are well.

    Umut



 

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