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Thread: carbon ES

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    carbon ES

    This Question is directed mostly to Sanking. I have signed up for your carbon workshop. Would I be able to make negs that would be able to print on Azo and carbon. I'm working up FP-4 at this time, and Keying the negs to Azo#3. Last neg I tried was ES about 1.56 blue channel, it was a little contrasty still. To get it to fit Azo#3 I think I'm going to have to go back to 1-1-100. I'm down to six minutes now and don't want to go under 5. Shooting at ISO 100. To fit on #3Azo the nege are starting to look visually more like a condenser enlarger neg. I'm used to going for#2 paper. I tried it on some old E2 Azo a friend just gave me and it printed a little flat, about what I expected from all the data I've red so far. I read on another post to key negs to Azo #3 for pn-pd. I was wondering if it would apply to carbon also. I have my fingers crossed that enough are signed up for it to be a go. Thanks, John

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    I was just looking at the post in the thred about the workshop and it answered a lot of my questions. I see that a blue reading of 1.3-1.35 will go for carbon and see it will be just about right for the Azo #3 too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vet173
    I was just looking at the post in the thred about the workshop and it answered a lot of my questions. I see that a blue reading of 1.3-1.35 will go for carbon and see it will be just about right for the Azo #3 too.
    I don't use densitometers but I can tell you 1.3 is low for carbon. I printed negs that made great prints on azo gr3 and was not able to make a decent print in carbon, even after considerably lowering the sensitizer concentration.
    The one print I made that was pleasing was from a neg that printed great on azo gr2 with some water bath. That should give you an idea of what kind of contrast you need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vet173
    This Question is directed mostly to Sanking. I have signed up for your carbon workshop. Would I be able to make negs that would be able to print on Azo and carbon. I'm working up FP-4 at this time, and Keying the negs to Azo#3. Last neg I tried was ES about 1.56 blue channel, it was a little contrasty still. To get it to fit Azo#3 I think I'm going to have to go back to 1-1-100. I'm down to six minutes now and don't want to go under 5. Shooting at ISO 100. To fit on #3Azo the nege are starting to look visually more like a condenser enlarger neg. I'm used to going for#2 paper. I tried it on some old E2 Azo a friend just gave me and it printed a little flat, about what I expected from all the data I've red so far. I read on another post to key negs to Azo #3 for pn-pd. I was wondering if it would apply to carbon also. I have my fingers crossed that enough are signed up for it to be a go. Thanks, John
    Hi John,

    Look forward to working with you at the Formulary workshop.

    OK, so as I understand it you want to make dual-purpose negatives for printing on AZO and Carbon. An further, you want to print on AZO 3, which has a much lower ES than AZO 2.

    Can you match a negative DR for both carbon and AZO 3? Absolutely yes! Carbon can handle virtually any negative DR, from as low as 0.8 to as high as 2.8. In my own work I prefer to develop negatives for a DR of about 1.7, which allows me to print pure palladium or kallityep as well as carbon. But basically, you just need to decide the DR of the other process you plan to print, and we can apply process controls to carbon.


    Best,

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 05-10-2005 at 08:10 AM. Click to view previous post history.

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    My refrence to the Azo #3 was from reference in other post in this section. What has anyone found as a needed DR for new Azo #2. I have a box on the way and only have printed #3 so far, except the half package I was recently given of 60's vintage E-2 and E-4. which I will use VERY judiciously. I just want to get the most bang for the buck. After I get to see the palladium and kalliotype prints in person I will probebly drift that way. I bought your carbon book today to get more familiar with the process so I can get the most out of it. I was concerned about having colivets experience, as I heard you need contrast for alt processes. Gearing towards Azo #3 negs were starting to look pretty pale. That's the reason for my post. Thanks for the feedback, John

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    nze
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    Sandy,

    I agree with you that carbon printing can handle any negative as we control the contrast by the bichromate bath. But It know make 2 years that I print carbon for my self and just find that the larger DR give more relief and have more 3D effect than. A print made from a negative with a 0.8 DR compare to a print made with a neg with a DR of 2 is dramtically different and I prefer the DR 2 negatives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nze
    Sandy,

    I agree with you that carbon printing can handle any negative as we control the contrast by the bichromate bath. But It know make 2 years that I print carbon for my self and just find that the larger DR give more relief and have more 3D effect than. A print made from a negative with a 0.8 DR compare to a print made with a neg with a DR of 2 is dramtically different and I prefer the DR 2 negatives.

    I also find that negatives with a high DR give more relief. In fact, some of the best relief I have seen in a carbon print was by someone who develops his negatives to a DR of about 2.2. My goal is a negative with a DR of around 1.75 which allows me to print easily in either carbon, kallitype or pure palladium. I get quite a lot of relief with this type of negative.

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 05-10-2005 at 10:39 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vet173
    My refrence to the Azo #3 was from reference in other post in this section. What has anyone found as a needed DR for new Azo #2. I have a box on the way and only have printed #3 so far, except the half package I was recently given of 60's vintage E-2 and E-4. which I will use VERY judiciously. I just want to get the most bang for the buck. After I get to see the palladium and kalliotype prints in person I will probebly drift that way. I bought your carbon book today to get more familiar with the process so I can get the most out of it. I was concerned about having colivets experience, as I heard you need contrast for alt processes. Gearing towards Azo #3 negs were starting to look pretty pale. That's the reason for my post. Thanks for the feedback, John
    You need a negative with a fairly high DR for AZO #2, say between 1.65 and 1.75.

    Sandy

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    Sandy, That's good to hear. That makes it more versatile. Since I'm still dialing in the film I will switch to accommodate the new #2.



 

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