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  1. #11
    Aggie's Avatar
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    Leave it to a bunch of bean counters to do this. Beans cause gass, and that is what most not all bean counters produce, a lot of gas, and a lot of gas is just a warning that there is a lot of shit coming soon. I agree with Sharon, I'm pissed! This leaves a whole lot of polaroid manipulation artists without product to work with. Why even have examples and instructions on a website that no longer gives a damn?
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Hawley
    I think its very recent Jeremy. I was looking for their SX-70 Manipulation article yesterday and couldn't find it. Then today, this notice was posted at the top of the article list.
    Uh, oh

    I was hoping it was just another instance of companies not updating their web presences, but alas....
    Let's see what I've got in the magic trash can for Mateo!

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie
    Why even have examples and instructions on a website that no longer gives a damn?
    I just checked Aggie. All the examples and instructions are gone. That's what led me to this "discovery" today.

    Let's give them a chance to explain further or make some further statement. Given the age and "obsolescence" of the SX-70, it might be that the artist community is what keeps this film alive, much like Azo. If that's true, and the line produces some amount of profit, perhaps they will remedy the situation.

    That's my "half-full" impression. My full empty impression of the MBA pukes is mean and nasty.
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  4. #14
    Aggie's Avatar
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    In today's bottom line corporate world, the big companies don't care about those using their products, they only care if they can save a few cents or utilize machinery for another product they hope to push ie. the 600 film. But Alex, I called around here in SF, and there quite a few cases worth of the time zero film dated with a exp date of Dec. 2005 or sooner. If you want I can grab as much as I can for you and others who would be interested. I just lost my desire to even experiment on something that will be gone as soon as the film is used up. So much for me doing an issue on Polariod as well. Was considering it for issue #6. What is sad is there are quite a few workshops this summer where this is being taught. Ms. Carr is In Montana in a few weeks teaching Polariod lifts and manipulations. This is very sad.
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  5. #15
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie
    In today's bottom line corporate world, the big companies don't care about those using their products, they only care if they can save a few cents or utilize machinery for another product they hope to push ie. the 600 film.
    You're right Aggie, but customers generate the revenue. Remeber what happened when Kodak tried to wean everyone off of Tri-X in favor of TMAX? Didn't work and Tri-X is still going strong.

    If, as you say, there are many workshops scheduled, that means a lot of customers and potential customers will be pissed and not buying. The Biz-wizzers don't care about pissed customers but ex-customers get someone's attention, if not another bankruptcy.

    This thing is just getting started.
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  6. #16
    ann
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    I talked with the tech people before leaving town on the 20th of the month (May). they pulled all information until they can correct the problem.

    I called them in mid may, and they were very responsive about the problem and at that time were collecting information to back track the issues.

    Shortly after that they did post a message regarding the issues, and pulled all information until they can get things resolved; or so i was told.

    the technical department has always been responsive to my calls, and at this time i am just waiting to see what is going to happen.

  7. #17

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    Remember, when Polaroid designed the film they did not intend for the emulsion to be soft and manipulative - it was a defect and a deviation from spec.

    The artistic function of the film was unintended, although welcomed and used.

    Since it was originally a defect and unexpected result Polaroid may not know all the factors behind the manipulative nature of the emulsion. And we do not know what their changes were, perhaps they were necessary to keep the film in production - Polaroid is not in the best of financial shape.

    Although the future of manipulations is uncertain, Polaroid should be commended for contacting as many people as they could and removing the information from their website. They acknowledged the change, the impact and do not want to mislead any newcomers to their products.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtsatterlee
    Although the future of manipulations is uncertain, Polaroid should be commended for contacting as many people as they could and removing the information from their website. They acknowledged the change, the impact and do not want to mislead any newcomers to their products.
    There are books, and workshops all geared around this film. The art schools tout it as a great product for manipulations. If polaroid after the fact could not figure out what they did, that is sad. It would not take a rocket scientist to figure out why the emulsion stayed soft enough for a while to work with.

    Maybe Ole could help us. It might only take using a tiny toothpick sized drop of a solvent like acetone to get the emulsion soft enough to work with. It might be worth a try.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Hawley
    Well, at least they are being up front about it. I'm not going to read in marketing conspiracy into this; there's no evidence to support that. Having been an engineer for nearly thirty years, I can say that these unintended changes do happen. Someone comes up with an idea for "improving" the process. Almost always, that means a lowering of production costs. That will get the executives ear, and despite any objections, win approval.
    I have to concur, being the former head of engineering myself at a large multi-national manufacturer. Often times changes are meant to 'improve' a process and end up with side effects not thought about in the final design. I suspect this is what happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie
    In today's bottom line corporate world, the big companies don't care about those using their products, they only care if they can save a few cents or utilize machinery for another product they hope to push ie. the 600 film.
    I don't think they intended any harm purposely to the end users. I'll bet they honestly thought they could improve the process, save money and produce the same product. Obviously they were wrong, but I wouldn't say they don't care about the users.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie
    There are books, and workshops all geared around this film. The art schools tout it as a great product for manipulations. If polaroid after the fact could not figure out what they did, that is sad. It would not take a rocket scientist to figure out why the emulsion stayed soft enough for a while to work with.
    Again I think this is too harsh an indictment. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist, but a chemical engineer!

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  10. #20
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr82bart
    It wouldn't take a rocket scientist, but a chemical engineer!
    Right Art. You can bet the technical staff has known all along what characteristics enabled the manipulation. I was doing some research today on the film and learned that it, Time-Zero, came on the market in 1980. The original SX-70 film had problems with fading. I wouldn't say that the emulsion softness was a defect; it may have been a technical issue that hadn't been resolved due to a variety of reasons; maybe the development was halted at the "good enough" stage.

    If anyone wants some heady reading, try this. Its the final court judgement in the Polaroid vs Kodak patent infingement case. The first 10 pages are the Judge's summary of all the technical and business testimony given by both parties. The SX-70 and its film were at the core of this patent infringement suit.
    Last edited by Alex Hawley; 06-10-2005 at 06:10 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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