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  1. #1
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Clearing issues with Kallitype

    Hi,

    I finally started making some Kallitype the other day. As a lot of people seem to have done, I read Sandy's article in unblinkingeye as a starting point.

    The problem I am encountering is the clearing of the masked part of the prints. I am developing in Sodium Citrate in almost 10 min, but it does not clear everything. Leaving prints in clearing solution does not clear out enough. 4 min. is not certainly enough time to take the stain away. On one print, I even left it for 10min. which almost took the stain, yet not comepletely.

    As Sandy suggested, I tried to maintain pH of the developer slightly acidic. I simply added some Citric Acid to achieve that. But that does not seem to help either.

    As I run out the Sodium Citrate, I have to wait until the chemical arrive to continue. I was wondering if anyone has any insight into the problem I am encountering.

    Thank you for your help in advance.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi

    Paper: Stonehenge
    Coating: Double coating with a glass rod (3 ml of sensitizer/coat: 30 min of drying between each coating)
    Negative: FP4 (7x17) processed in Pyrocat (2:2:100)
    Exposure time: about 20 min under UV box masked with construction paper

  2. #2

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    I follow Sandy's article closely and have always had my prints clear of stain in the developer. I never had luck with Stonehenge - since others' have I assumed I either got a ****y batch or the paper I received actually was not stonehenge. I still clear for 3 min in the 3% citric acid. I have never had any luck with double coating.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by philsweeney
    I follow Sandy's article closely and have always had my prints clear of stain in the developer. I never had luck with Stonehenge - since others' have I assumed I either got a ****y batch or the paper I received actually was not stonehenge. I still clear for 3 min in the 3% citric acid. I have never had any luck with double coating.
    I used to get very good results with Stonhenge but a recent batch has proven very hard to clear. With this batch I use either Kodak Hypo Clear (or a home made substitute) that is prepared as a stock solution (200 grams of sodium sulfite and 50 grams of sodium metabisulfite in one liter of water) and diluted 1:4 for use as a clearing agent.

    My experience with kallitype is that if the print does not clear almost completely after 3-4 minutes in the developer there is a problem either with the developer (needs to be more acidic) or the paper.

    I do routinely double coat for additional Dmax and have not had any problems, though you do need to calibrate for it since double coating lengthens exposure times.

    Sandy

  4. #4
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Sandy,

    Thank you for your comment. What I am not sure is the following:

    1) If I have a hard time clearing in developer, like your recent batch of Stonehenge, do I still take the paper out of the developer even though it is not completely cleared, knowing that Hypo Clear will take care of it?

    2) If that is the case, how long you are developing then?

    3) Also, how do you make a decision as to which solution should take care of the clearing if in fact you have a hard time clearing the stain in the developer.

    If you could clarify these points, that would be great. Thank you for your time and comments.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi

    p.s.: I just could not make it to your workshop in MT. I was trying very hard until the last minute, but it did not materialize this time. Hope you will have the same workshop next year, and hope to see you there.


    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    I used to get very good results with Stonhenge but a recent batch has proven very hard to clear. With this batch I use either Kodak Hypo Clear (or a home made substitute) that is prepared as a stock solution (200 grams of sodium sulfite and 50 grams of sodium metabisulfite in one liter of water) and diluted 1:4 for use as a clearing agent.

    My experience with kallitype is that if the print does not clear almost completely after 3-4 minutes in the developer there is a problem either with the developer (needs to be more acidic) or the paper.

    I do routinely double coat for additional Dmax and have not had any problems, though you do need to calibrate for it since double coating lengthens exposure times.

    Sandy

  5. #5
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Philsweeney,

    Thank you for your comment.

    So, which paper are you using for kallitype if not Stonehenge? Is it Platine?

    Thanks again.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi


    Quote Originally Posted by philsweeney
    I follow Sandy's article closely and have always had my prints clear of stain in the developer. I never had luck with Stonehenge - since others' have I assumed I either got a ****y batch or the paper I received actually was not stonehenge. I still clear for 3 min in the 3% citric acid. I have never had any luck with double coating.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinnya
    Sandy,

    Thank you for your comment. What I am not sure is the following:

    1) If I have a hard time clearing in developer, like your recent batch of Stonehenge, do I still take the paper out of the developer even though it is not completely cleared, knowing that Hypo Clear will take care of it?

    2) If that is the case, how long you are developing then?

    3) Also, how do you make a decision as to which solution should take care of the clearing if in fact you have a hard time clearing the stain in the developer.

    If you could clarify these points, that would be great. Thank you for your time and comments.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi

    p.s.: I just could not make it to your workshop in MT. I was trying very hard until the last minute, but it did not materialize this time. Hope you will have the same workshop next year, and hope to see you there.
    Hi Tsyyoshi,

    I leave the print in the developer until it is almost completely cleared. Genrally this takes less than two minutes, but some stubborn papers may require as much as 6-8 minutes. The subsequent wash (between developer and clearer) is also imporant. If the water of this was is very alkaline it will set the iron salts and make them very difficult, or impossible, to remove. This is one of the reasons I sometimes go to a very long development time.

    I plan to offer the workshop again next year, and it will include primarily carbon, but also for those interested some of the other processes in which I have some degree of expertise, such as VDB, kallitype and pallaidum.

    Best,

    Sandy

  7. #7

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    I have been doing Kallitypes and other alternate processes lately, I have used Cranes Platinotype and Fabriano Uno paper. The Uno wouldnt clear for me and so far I have had no problems with the Cranes Platinotype. I have used the platinotype for cyanotypes, van dyke brown, kallitypes and ziatype all with great results.

    I have seen the dramatic differences in prints being successful from just the paper that was used. A print coated the same way, exposed for the same amount of time, developed the same way can look completely different on a paper that doesnt like to clear. Blacks/shadows that arent dark enough and hilights that never clear... just due to the paper..

    I dont know the problem you are having for sure, but I would suggest trying a different paper as from what I have seen, most of these alternate processes are very sensitive to the particular paper used and it reads to me your problem is more the paper than the developing solutions you are using.

    good luck!

    edit: I am using the 'black' developer and EDTA from bostick and sullivan to clear my kallitypes, using about 1 tbsp of crystals per 1 liter of water for 3-5 minutes
    "Where is beauty? Where I must will with my whole Will; where I will love and perish, that an image may not remain merely an image."

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinnya
    Philsweeney,

    Thank you for your comment.

    So, which paper are you using for kallitype if not Stonehenge? Is it Platine?

    Thanks again.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi
    I have had success with COT320, Crane's platinotype or strathmore 400 watercolor. I do an oxalic acid presoak for 2 min on the 400.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinnya
    Hi,

    I finally started making some Kallitype the other day. As a lot of people seem to have done, I read Sandy's article in unblinkingeye as a starting point.

    The problem I am encountering is the clearing of the masked part of the prints. I am developing in Sodium Citrate in almost 10 min, but it does not clear everything. Leaving prints in clearing solution does not clear out enough. 4 min. is not certainly enough time to take the stain away. On one print, I even left it for 10min. which almost took the stain, yet not comepletely.

    As Sandy suggested, I tried to maintain pH of the developer slightly acidic. I simply added some Citric Acid to achieve that. But that does not seem to help either.

    As I run out the Sodium Citrate, I have to wait until the chemical arrive to continue. I was wondering if anyone has any insight into the problem I am encountering.

    Thank you for your help in advance.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi

    Paper: Stonehenge
    Coating: Double coating with a glass rod (3 ml of sensitizer/coat: 30 min of drying between each coating)
    Negative: FP4 (7x17) processed in Pyrocat (2:2:100)
    Exposure time: about 20 min under UV box masked with construction paper
    Hi Tsuyoshi,

    I've thought about your post for several days but have been reticent to write a reply since I don't have any suggestions I can make to you about the clearing issues you have experienced.

    Unfortunately I am simpatico with your dilema since I have experienced the same problems that you have only with different papers.

    Sandy has kindly mentored me about the problem but I have never been able to solve it. For the record:

    1) I'm developing in Sodium Citrate. I have mixed completely fresh developer and ensured the developer pH is acidic, about 6.0 or so.

    2) I'm clearing with citric acid as you are, but here is the funny part. The over coated unexposed non-image area on the paper seems to clear in the citric bath but when I wash in water (either tap or distilled) the stain reappears.

    3) Toning worsens the problem, if I use a gold toner the paper appears to be scorched as though an iron were scorching a starched white dress shirt.

    4) If I don't wash - rinse the print prior to toning the effect isn't so pronounced, but after fixing and clearing in the hypo eliminator bath the stain is still present.

    5) I've used Cot 320, Stonehenge White, and Cranes Natural White Wove 90 although the 320 as I recall has the worst stain.

    6) BTW, I'm using fresh FO and fixing with a 3% alkaline fixer.

    I would really like to solve this problem, the toned kallitype are quite fetching.

    A few things I have thought of trying are:

    1) Getting a different source of citric acid or use 1% hydrochloric acid for clearing.

    2) Lowering the pH of the developer a bit more; since I'm usiing cheap pH papers to measure the pH. Perhaps my pH evaluation is off

    3) Washing longer before toning.

    If anyone has any ideas to share I have open ears.

    Thanks,

    Don Bryant

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by donbga
    Hi Tsuyoshi,

    A few things I have thought of trying are:

    1) Getting a different source of citric acid or use 1% hydrochloric acid for clearing.

    2) Lowering the pH of the developer a bit more; since I'm usiing cheap pH papers to measure the pH. Perhaps my pH evaluation is off

    3) Washing longer before toning.

    Don Bryant
    Don,

    The Hypo Clear substitute that I mentioned does a much better job than citric acid with the latest batch of Stonhenge. I would give it a try before going to the hydrochloric acid.

    Washing longer before toning may help, but I would concentrate first on clearing. If necessary you might follow the lead of Pt./Pd. prnters and use several different clearing baths, with the last one very fresh.

    I am really quite surprised at how much harder the new batch of Stonhenge is to clear than previous versions of this paper.

    Sandy

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