Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,886   Posts: 1,520,599   Online: 1029
      
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 41
  1. #11
    smieglitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,863
    Images
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by JG Motamedi
    All Kodak glass plates were discontinued about four years ago. I think they were used primarily for astronomy and electron microscopy, and were incredibly expensive...
    Well! That news really rocks my world. I figured the TMX (and other) technical plates would be one of the last Kodak products to disappear. I can see them killing off all their Art products but I thought the Science products would continue to be manufactered even if the demand was miniscule.

    So much for dimensional stability. This is gonna put me over the edge.

    Joe

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,942
    hi jason

    i have been itchin' to use the kodak recipe, it looks easy enough ... but haven't had a chance to, so i broke down and bought another quart of liquid light. it is kind of the same but better ....

    Ryuji Suzuki ( http://www.silvergrain.org ) has a ton of experience making his own emulsion. he used to post here from time to time ... maybe he'll chime in ?

    -john

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Floriduh
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    2,265
    Images
    2
    So there's a few ways to go and lots of reading to do. Can anyone tho give me any idea as to archival qualitites in any form. Also, why doesn't any coating just come of the plates?

  4. #14
    JG Motamedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    469
    Can anyone tho give me any idea as to archival qualitites in any form
    Collodion negatives on glass are, if properly processed, as archival as any other B&W process. That is to say, they meet or exceed most archival standards.

    why doesn't any coating just come of the plates?
    Sometimes in processing collodion does come off the plates. In general however collodion, albumen, and gelatin manage to adhere. The glass must be very well cleaned; I use a combination of rotten-stone and alcohol to really scrub (but not scratch) the plate before pouring the emulsion. Perhaps the emulsion adheres to the roughened edges of the glass more than the smooth center.

    Sometimes, with particular kinds of salts and glass the collodion will not stick, and it has to be "subbed" (from substratum) before applying the emulsion. Meaning; a thin layer of dilute albumen is flowed and dried on the plate before the collodion. After this is done, the collodion will stick like glue.

    Hope this helps.

  5. #15
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Carolina, USA (transplanted from Seattle)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,845
    Okay, from back up the thread a little -- collodion is flammable and may be subject to long term deterioration a la nitrate movie film, regardless of the stage of production. I speak from experience, having once accidentally ignited a model airplane coated with nitrate dope (collodion in all but name) and watched all the tissue paper covering burn off a wing in about three seconds. And the nitocellulose used as a propellant in all modern ammunition differs from collodion only in the level of nitration -- collodion is the middle grade (celluloid is least, guncotton or nitrocellulose is the most).

    Not to mention that ether is flammable enough it's used as an aid to starting engines when they're too cold to start on gasoline or diesel, and is capable of oxidizing to a friction sensitive explosive in storage (and never mind its anesthetic/intoxicating effects).

    Wet plate isn't impossible, surely, but there are very good reasons most of the photographic world abandoned it as soon as dry plates became commercially available.
    Photography has always fascinated me -- as a child, simply for the magic of capturing an image onto glossy paper with a little box, but as an adult because of the unique juxtaposition of science and art -- the physics of optics, the mechanics of the camera, the chemistry of film and developer, alongside the art in seeing, composing, exposing, processing and printing.

  6. #16
    JG Motamedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    469
    If "collodion is flammable and may be subject to long term deterioration" I would like to know why there are many thousands of tintypes and ambrotypes in existence in beautiful shape? Once dried collodion is no more flammable than a plastic bag. Do you worry about all those plastic bags in your house? It is NOT like nitrate film.

    But seriously, yes, liquid collodion contains both ether and alcohol, both of which are flammable (like gasoline) and inhaled or imbibed in sufficient quantities will stupefy, and eventually kill you (like gin). But don't listen to me, read the MSDS

    http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c5060.htm

    Silver Nitrate--another major ingredient--will if splashed in your eyes blind you, and will dye your skin dark brown. So beware and keep buying off the shelves!

  7. #17
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Carolina, USA (transplanted from Seattle)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,845
    Collodion *is* like nitrate film -- celluloid and collodion are nearly identical, chemically. Film is more prone to deterioration because, when it was being made by the thousands of miles, some of it was not propertly neutralized, and the residual acidity causes the breakdown that can cause spontaneous combustion. This has been less of a problem with collodion plates because, first, the collodion coating process tends to neutralize any residual nitric acid, and second, because these are seldom if ever stored in airtight cans with many pounds of the collodion sealed in, so they don't accumulate the deteriorate products that accelerate the breakdown (as happens with nitrate film).

    However, in the late 19th century, collodion billiard balls were well known to make a gunshot-like crack when they struck from a hard shot, and occasionally to burst into flame from this; collodion collars were also known to catch fire and burn with great rapidity, severely injuring a number of men who were wearing them when this happened.

    Try this as an experiment: take collodion and dry it on a substrate to which it doesn't adhere, then peel off the resulting sheet. Hold it with tongs and touch a match to it -- I think you'll then agree with me that collodion is vigorously flammable. You won't find the same thing with plastic bags, which are made of polyethylene (mostly).
    Photography has always fascinated me -- as a child, simply for the magic of capturing an image onto glossy paper with a little box, but as an adult because of the unique juxtaposition of science and art -- the physics of optics, the mechanics of the camera, the chemistry of film and developer, alongside the art in seeing, composing, exposing, processing and printing.

  8. #18
    JG Motamedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    469
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Qualls
    Try this as an experiment: take collodion and dry it on a substrate to which it doesn't adhere, then peel off the resulting sheet. Hold it with tongs and touch a match to it -- I think you'll then agree with me that collodion is vigorously flammable.
    I stand corrected. Sure enough, my little dried piece of collodion went poof! quick up in flames, kinda pretty like flash powder.

    I tried the same with a tintype, but it didn't ignite at all, it just smelled like lavender from the varnish. This does bring up an issue; when drying collodion plates they are exposed to direct flame and heat. I have personally dried a hundred+ plates, and I know folks have have done several thousand, and I have never heard anybody complain that their collodion ignited on the plate.

    So Donald, why don't my tintypes ignite?

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,942
    Quote Originally Posted by waynecrider
    So there's a few ways to go and lots of reading to do. Can anyone tho give me any idea as to archival qualitites in any form. Also, why doesn't any coating just come of the plates?
    wayne - not sure why, but sometimes the emulsion won't stick to some of the subbing agents, even though these subbing agents will stick to the glass. i've a photographic annual from 1904 with recipes for albumen and collodion "stuff", and while i was able to get both substances to adhere to the glass plate ( well cleaned ) the liquid light just didn't stick to the subbing agent and didn't dry out ... i didn't use the blow dryer, knowing the flame-issues with collodion, and it didn't help much with albumen. i don't have experience with other methods or processes, like wet collodion, or tin types, ambrotypes &C which are very similar, but from my understanding the silver nitrate is suspended in the collodion, rather than suspended in gelatine ... ( like (dry plate) liquid silver emulsion ) ...

    after i realized that it was a waste of my time to use it as a "subber", i did play around i with my pharmacy bought collodion. i made small molds and poured it into them. when the collodion dried out, i carefully pulled them out, inked and etched them and used them in my enlarger like film. ink and dyes go right *into* the collodion and are not on the surface, so, when they were enlarged, the drawn images had a nice 3-D effect. when i was done, i found a nice open place where i ignited my little art project.

    jason -
    maybe your tintypes don't ignite because the collodion has bonded a different way with the asphalt-like substance that also coats the tin? judging from the way inks wander into the collodion, i wouldn't be surprised that something similar might be happening with the asphalt, and it is dispersing( if that makes sense ) the flammable quality.

  10. #20
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Washington DC
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    8,194
    Blog Entries
    51
    Images
    435
    Quote Originally Posted by JG Motamedi
    I stand corrected. Sure enough, my little dried piece of collodion went poof! quick up in flames, kinda pretty like flash powder.

    I tried the same with a tintype, but it didn't ignite at all, it just smelled like lavender from the varnish. This does bring up an issue; when drying collodion plates they are exposed to direct flame and heat. I have personally dried a hundred+ plates, and I know folks have have done several thousand, and I have never heard anybody complain that their collodion ignited on the plate.

    So Donald, why don't my tintypes ignite?
    they probably don't ignite because of the varnish.

    I do know someone who has had glass plates burst into flame and shatter in his hands while coating... it happened when he was trying to keep a plate warm enough for the collodion to stay fluid while photographing in the field in Montana in the fall. He was coating it over a gas jet.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin