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  1. #1
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    Sizing - got the who, where, why & when just need the HOW

    got the all the recommended gum bichromate chems from B&S - no instructions tho on what the gelatin and glyoxal are for..

    as far as I have googled i can see they are related to paper sizing - in which there is myriad talk about the why to size and what to and what not to use for sizing in myriad different scenarios - but as far as i can find there are no instructions on how it is achieved ..

    solution strengths ? which first ? how long ? do you simply immerse the paper in the solution ? do you coat with coating rod ? just leave it to dry ?

    um, errr ?

    help!

    would experiment - but don't want to waste chems or poison (?) myself

    any help appreciated (;

    cheers,
    nick

  2. #2
    Mateo's Avatar
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    This excellent article ought to help: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/GoverP/goverp.html
    "If I only had a brain"-Some badly dressed guy made of straw in some movie I think I saw

  3. #3
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    drunkotype

    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo
    This excellent article ought to help: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/GoverP/goverp.html
    Damn,

    thats a good article - i remember seeing the site and those two pic's sometime ago - but that was before I needed to know about sizing so the info didn't soak in so much (heh)

    Ok!

    thanks Mateo

    p.s. Everclear... hmmm cant get that here - shall i add Vodka instead ?

  4. #4
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    It may be no wonder his prints yellow with glyoxal.

    I'm able to harden with a far lower level than he reports in that reference. I use about 18 drops of 10% glyoxal in 30 ml of 10% gelatin. No need for that 40% glyoxal. And, my gelatin is hard by the time it dries.

    I am making conventional silver halide in gelatin prints, and that may make a difference, but it shouldn't make that much difference.

    BTW, Bergger makes a fine rag paper that is pre-sized. Excellent coating quality for many coating purposes.

    PE

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    IBTW, Bergger makes a fine rag paper that is pre-sized. Excellent coating quality for many coating purposes.

    PE
    Are you talking about COT 320 or does Bergger make a gelatin sized pape?

    Sandy

  6. #6
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Sandy, the Bergger COT320 is gelatin sized with no baryta. It may be hardened, but I didnt' ask them (it would probably have to be). The labels on some packages are incorrect, indicating baryta content, but I checked with them personally when I placed a large order of 11x14.

    The 11x14 COT320 that I got had new packaging without the 'baryta' being mentioned on the label.

    PE

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    Sandy, the Bergger COT320 is gelatin sized with no baryta. It may be hardened, but I didnt' ask them (it would probably have to be). The labels on some packages are incorrect, indicating baryta content, but I checked with them personally when I placed a large order of 11x14.

    The 11x14 COT320 that I got had new packaging without the 'baryta' being mentioned on the label.

    PE
    PE

    Thanks for the information. I knew that it was sized but not with gelatin. I have some on hand and may try it with carbon printing now that I know the sizing is gelatin.

    Sandy

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    Sandy, the Bergger COT320 is gelatin sized with no baryta. It may be hardened, but I didnt' ask them (it would probably have to be). The labels on some packages are incorrect, indicating baryta content, but I checked with them personally when I placed a large order of 11x14.

    The 11x14 COT320 that I got had new packaging without the 'baryta' being mentioned on the label.

    PE
    PE,

    When I tried the lick an stick test with my COT 320 there was no stick, which makes me believe there is no gelatin sizing. What is the source of your 11X14 batch that is gelatin sized? Or is it sized so slightly that it will not stick?

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 09-25-2005 at 02:44 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #9
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    I have some COT320 here - thought tho that gum favored the rougher papers with more 'tooth' to keep hold of the delicate highlight areas

    will try it anyway, using the rougher side, which I use anyway for pd prints - might be interesting to have a high contrast pic result and I'm going to try some half-toning (via photoshop) so the contrast is max anyway (;

    I also just found this:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum42/6248-hand-sizing-paper-ptpd.html

    which is exactly what I was after - instructions from B&S itself, right here at APUG - heh - unsure why I didn't see it in my searches for 'sizing' - but it was at the bottom of the forum page in the similar threads links ...

    great function that.

  10. #10
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Sandy, I called Bergger and spoke with John there. He assured me that there was a gelatin size on the COT paper, but he said that there was no Baryta whatsoever.

    Based on his assurance and my trial coatings on some 8x10, I ordered two boxes of 11x14.

    My experience with it coating silver halide in gelatin has been excellent. If it were not for the price, I would use it for everything. As it is, I use Strathmore Smooth for my trial coatings (no subbing) and then the 'best of the best' goes onto the Bergger.

    I just wish I could get some Baryta subbed paper, but anyhow, the behavior in my hands based on my experience agrees with what John said - that there is some level of subbing on that Bergger paper. I agree that it is hard to detect, but I can see the slight sheen on one side as opposed to the other so one side is different. It does not appear to be just due to calendaring. Gelatin seems to spread more easily on the Bergger COT paper.

    PE

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