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  1. #21
    smieglitz's Avatar
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    OK, here are the scans. The single image is the exposure and treatment I consider standard for my VDBs. It also looks the best in hand.

    Small arrows on the stepwedge mark the extent of printed tone due to the exposure, so you can see that the gold-toned prints actually gained steps, selenium-toned prints lost steps, and Polytoned prints stayed about the same in the highlights, but lost maximum density. For the untoned ecruwhite examples the highlight density stayed the same but the print on white paper lost a step in the highlights. The untoned prints are also the most reddish-brown of all.

    There was a slight bit of variation evident in the exposures between the prints although most looked identical coming out of the exposure unit. The maximum variation was less than 1/2 step or 1/4 stop. Whether that was an artifact of the actual exposure or a coating artifact is unknown. It may have been due to a change in humidity over the course of the day, but it was rainy here all day so I doubt that was the cause. Papers were all coated early in the day and then printed throughout the day so some sat around sensitized longer than others. However, I couldn't detect any pattern over the course of the day that would explain the slight variations. I suspect they are ultimately attributable to small variations in coating.

    Bottom line is that I prefer the gold toner treatment but the weak selenium toner also changed the color somewhat and might be a way to increase print contrast slightly if additional exposure was given.

    Quote Originally Posted by smieglitz

    The prints were:
    1) untoned print, emulsion single-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
    2) untoned print, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
    3) untoned print, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish white;

    4) print toned before fixing using Kodak Polytoner 1+4 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
    5) print toned after fixing using Kodak Polytoner 1+4 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;

    6) print toned before fixing using Kodak Polytoner 1+50 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
    7) print toned after fixing using Kodak Polytoner 1+50 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;

    8) print toned before fixing using Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner 1+500 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
    9) print toned after fixing using Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner 1+500 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;

    10) print toned before fixing using Clerc's Gold Toner, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
    11) print toned after fixing using Clerc's Gold Toner, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite. (My SOP.)


    *** If you open the attached photos be forewarned the image is a nude in the landscape. ***
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails vdb_toners_sm.jpg   Clercs_standard.jpg  

  2. #22

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    Very good information you have hear Joe...Thanks for all the work, the detail you provided is great. IMO, this information should be added to the articles. One comment on the attached image with the different toners, could not read the data, is there a way to make that information larger?

    Very impressive work and a BIG THANK YOU for all the effort you have done.
    Mike C

    Rambles

  3. #23
    smieglitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by photomc
    ... One comment on the attached image with the different toners, could not read the data, is there a way to make that information larger?...
    The info is the same as in my previous two posts identifying the general processing steps and the conditions of the numbered prints (which are in sequence on the composite image). I've shrunk the image down to its largest acceptable upload size on APUG. I'll try to upload a larger version on my personal home page and post a link later.

    Also a disclaimer: I just viewed the attachments on a PC and they look much darker and have much greater contrast than they do on the Mac computer which was used during scanning. Monitor gamma should be set to 1.8 to view them as the prints appear in reality.

    Joe
    Last edited by smieglitz; 11-29-2005 at 05:39 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #24

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    I, for one, really appreciate your post on this. I do Van Dyke from time to time but haven't toned them. Your mini-exhibition gives me a heap of info that it would have taken me months and many dollars to get. Thanks.

    Cheers,Richard

  5. #25
    smieglitz's Avatar
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    Glad you find this useful. It has answered a few questions I've wondered about for a while and I'm pleased someone else may benefit from it. I've picked up a few very good pointers here on APUG and am happy when I can reciprocate a bit.

    Joe

  6. #26

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    I'm just getting into alt processes & find this information very useful. There seems so many caveats with selenium toning for archival permanence (see Rudman's Toning book, chapter on archival toning) as well as unwanted color changes at stronger dilutions, is using Agfa Sistan a better route for alt processes? Or should gold or sulfide toning routines be pursued?
    van Huyck Photo
    "Progress is only a direction, and it's often the wrong direction"

  7. #27
    smieglitz's Avatar
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    Based on what I'm seeing here with Polytoner, I would be very cautious about attempting sulfide toning with an alternative silver process.

    I would instead suggest weighing the relative archival benefits against other things such as image color.

    For that reason I prefer gold-toning VDBs and POP. Gold toning improves image stability and I prefer the resultant color so if the print only lasts for 600 years instead of 700, I'm OK with that. I'd much rather have a beautiful print with a lovely color on the wall instead of one that was only slightly more archival but stuck in a closet somewhere because I didn't like the color.

    Joe

  8. #28
    smieglitz's Avatar
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    Here's a link to a much bigger file of the comparison picture:

    http://my.net-link.net/~jsmigiel/ima...t_11.28.05.jpg

    Joe

  9. #29
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    Joe, wow. really well done. thats awesome to see them all together like that.
    you should write up an article about it.

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