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  1. #1
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Coat your own baryta paper?

    So given the apparent difficulty of acquiring baryta paper without making a large minimum order, and just out of curiosity, has anyone tried subbing their own? It would add another step to any coating process, but it seems like something one could do in large quantities and it would keep indefinitely.

    I'm not sure what would be involved, but barium sulfate (that is what it is, isn't it?) seems readily available and not too costly. It is used to improve whiteness and gloss in paints and in radiology (barium enemas and such). www.conservationresources.com sells it for $40/500g, and I suspect that there may be less expensive sources. Could it be mixed, say, with albumen or gelatin or another sizing before coating, or would it adhere to the paper if it were mixed with water and applied?
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
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  2. #2
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Soon as we get clear of avian flu, I'm gonna start a chicken farm, for makin' up some albumen paper !

    Yee, hah !

    ( I don't want my freedom... )
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  3. #3
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    So given the apparent difficulty of acquiring baryta paper without making a large minimum order, and just out of curiosity, has anyone tried subbing their own? It would add another step to any coating process, but it seems like something one could do in large quantities and it would keep indefinitely.

    I'm not sure what would be involved, but barium sulfate (that is what it is, isn't it?) seems readily available and not too costly. It is used to improve whiteness and gloss in paints and in radiology (barium enemas and such). www.conservationresources.com sells it for $40/500g, and I suspect that there may be less expensive sources. Could it be mixed, say, with albumen or gelatin or another sizing before coating, or would it adhere to the paper if it were mixed with water and applied?
    David, I believe that there will soon be a reliable source of baryta DW paper in 3 surfaces. I have samples in hand by a several reputable manufacturers and have tested them all with silver halide emulsions. I will also try to test them with pt/pd printing. Since I am no expert there, it will take me a while to ramp up to do adequate tests.

    OTOH, if you wish to make your own, I have several formulas for baryta subbing. It requires the medical baryta paste (unflavored) that you mention above.

    There is another problem. Photograde baryta goes through calendaring rollers at very high pressure after drying, to achieve a smooth surface. If it does not, then you get a very rough surfaced baryta. It is ok, but is on the order of a double or triple matte with no possibility of having a gloss. Darkroom equipment cannot match the thousands of pounds pressure needed to achieve smooth matte or the many thousands of pounds pressure for glossy.

    PE

  4. #4
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    If it's not too much trouble, I'd at least be interested in seeing the formulas.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  5. #5

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    PE,

    What is the pH of the baryta coating, and in a paper sample that I have tried to coat why did the pt/pd slip and slide all over the place. I am not sure that just the baryta coated stock will work for ALT processes.

    Jan Pietrzak

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    David, I believe that there will soon be a reliable source of baryta DW paper in 3 surfaces. I have samples in hand by a several reputable manufacturers and have tested them all with silver halide emulsions. I will also try to test them with pt/pd printing. Since I am no expert there, it will take me a while to ramp up to do adequate tests.

    OTOH, if you wish to make your own, I have several formulas for baryta subbing. It requires the medical baryta paste (unflavored) that you mention above.

    There is another problem. Photograde baryta goes through calendaring rollers at very high pressure after drying, to achieve a smooth surface. If it does not, then you get a very rough surfaced baryta. It is ok, but is on the order of a double or triple matte with no possibility of having a gloss. Darkroom equipment cannot match the thousands of pounds pressure needed to achieve smooth matte or the many thousands of pounds pressure for glossy.

    PE

  6. #6

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    For Pt/Pd homebrew uncalandered baryta will draw in emulsion like a black hole then on development bleed like a large sucking chest wound.

  7. #7
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    They can't apply as much pressure as an industrial calendering press, I'm sure, but in the 19th century, there were hand cranked calendering presses. Albumen prints were sometimes calendered for extra gloss after printing.

    People who make handmade papers use some sort of small-scale calendering press. I know a few letterpress and book-arts types. I know a photographer who was interested in making 19th-century style cartes de visite from collodion plates printed on albumen, and I think he mentioned that he was interested in calendering the prints. I'll have to ask around.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  8. #8

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    David, the hand presses sound very interesting... in Japanese papermaking they sometimes use something as simple as hand polishing with a burin... please post a link if you encounter anything. Also I should add that when I tried the baryta raw perhaps I did not try it in combination with sufficient glues & gelatins. I think with the commercial paper there is some kind of resin in the mix that makes the surface too 'hostile'.

    .... make that 'baren' not 'burin' ... mind you the burin might explain the paper bleeding.

  9. #9
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    If it's not too much trouble, I'd at least be interested in seeing the formulas.
    David, here is a production scale Baryta formula from a textbook by Baker.

    50% baryta paste 120 kg
    water 20 l
    Gelatin 4.5 kg
    water 30 l
    Chrome alum, 10% 1500 cc
    Citric acid 10% 1000 cc
    Alcohol 2000 cc
    Milk 2500 cc
    Glycerin 600 cc
    Coloring matter (tinting dyes) 100 cc
    Water 1000 cc

    This must be mixed to achieve a fine even paste and then filtered.

    Coat at 40 deg C (100 F) at about 100 ft/min and calendar when dry at the pressure needed for the surface desired.

    Starch or methyl methacrylate beads (a modern addendum) may be added for additional roughness or texture. The milk may be omitted and water substituted (from another source) with a slight loss in whiteness.

    The pH is on the acid side. By proper treatment, this paper should be usable for pt/pd imaging, but it will require modification of the formulas.

    PE

  10. #10
    Aggie's Avatar
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    Check ebay for a rolling mill. That is a machine used in metal smithing to flatten and roll metal thinner. It is hand cranked (some can be motorized) and the one I have is 12 inches whide. It applies 2500 pounds of pressure per square inch and above depending on how much I adjust it. all you would need to do is place a piece of plastic over the top of the paper so it would not contaminate the roller or if you want just clean the roller after each use. My rolling mill was $750 brand new. Used you can get a good deal on them. The rollers btw are stainless steel polished to a high mirror surface.



    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    They can't apply as much pressure as an industrial calendering press, I'm sure, but in the 19th century, there were hand cranked calendering presses. Albumen prints were sometimes calendered for extra gloss after printing.

    People who make handmade papers use some sort of small-scale calendering press. I know a few letterpress and book-arts types. I know a photographer who was interested in making 19th-century style cartes de visite from collodion plates printed on albumen, and I think he mentioned that he was interested in calendering the prints. I'll have to ask around.
    Non Digital Diva

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