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  1. #1
    buggy's Avatar
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    Pt Toning times for van dyke and paper weight

    I made a print today and used my usual pt. toner, by Bostick and Sullivan, basically 1/2 L, citric acid, and 7 drops #3 pt. solution. I also used a heavier paper, Arches Watercolor, 140 lb. I have been using Cranes kid finish white which is considerably lighter than the Arches Watercolor. I toned for 16 minutes and not much happened. My last print on Cranes kid finish was well toned after 7 minutes.

    Does it take more time to tone a print on heavier paper?

    Does anyone have any numbers on how long it might take to tone a heavier paper or do I need to change toner concentration or something else?

    Thanks for any help.

  2. #2
    scootermm's Avatar
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    my thoughts.... heavier paper really absorbs more of the VDB solution. I found when toning 140lb paper Id often use maybe 33% more metal drops and leave it usually 50-75% more time in the toner to get similar color shifting.

    the thicker paper seems to absorb more chemistry and also the chemistry seems to go "farther" into the papers surface so its not suprising itd take more time/metal drops to get a similiar color shift.
    One thing suggested to me this past weekend was when coating thicker papers was to dry them "faster" with a hair dryer so that the solution doesnt absorb as deeply, which would then mean toning would be easier as well Id assume.

    Hope that helps buggy.

  3. #3

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    That is curious. I have never noticed that it takes longer to tone heavier papers than thin ones, and I have toned very thin vellums and papers up 140lbs. With the toner I use the toning is visually complete in about 2-3 minutes.

    However, you need to bear in mind that visual appearance is no indicator of how high a percentage of the silver metal has been replaced with the platinum or palladium. I reported some months ago some tests that were done for me by the Getty which showed that replacement was still taking place at twenty minutes, even though most of it was over by about ten minutes. This of course begs the question, how much is good enough for archival quality similar to regular Pt./Pd?

    Sandy






    Quote Originally Posted by buggy
    I made a print today and used my usual pt. toner, by Bostick and Sullivan, basically 1/2 L, citric acid, and 7 drops #3 pt. solution. I also used a heavier paper, Arches Watercolor, 140 lb. I have been using Cranes kid finish white which is considerably lighter than the Arches Watercolor. I toned for 16 minutes and not much happened. My last print on Cranes kid finish was well toned after 7 minutes.

    Does it take more time to tone a print on heavier paper?

    Does anyone have any numbers on how long it might take to tone a heavier paper or do I need to change toner concentration or something else?

    Thanks for any help.

  4. #4
    Michael Slade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    I reported some months ago some tests that were done for me by the Getty which showed that replacement was still taking place at twenty minutes, even though most of it was over by about ten minutes. This of course begs the question, how much is good enough for archival quality similar to regular Pt./Pd?

    Sandy
    Sandy,

    This is a very curious topic for me. Is there any way you can share your raw data? If you are using it for a research project, I completely understand.

    I am interested to find out just how much metal is replaced, and what times will be required to match or come close to pt/pd archival results.
    Michael Slade

  5. #5

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    Be happy to share the data. I am in fact using it for a research project but the project has some other paths to take before it is finished so I don't consider the results definitive. But in my current state of disorganization it may take a while to find the data.

    Sandy

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Slade
    Sandy,

    This is a very curious topic for me. Is there any way you can share your raw data? If you are using it for a research project, I completely understand.

    I am interested to find out just how much metal is replaced, and what times will be required to match or come close to pt/pd archival results.



 

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