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  1. #1
    Charles Webb's Avatar
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    Paper negative question:

    First off, I have never made a paper negative! I have still not used variable
    contrast paper. My question is how is VC paper exposed in a view camera?

    Does a straight exposure with out filters deliver the correct contrast for a good printable negative ?

    Can contrast be changed when the exposed developed/negative is printed?

    Thank you for helping me understand!

    Charlie..........................

  2. #2

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    paper negative question

    Hi Charlie, I'd say forget about the VC properties when using it as a negative.
    The 'VC' is made during printing. I always use a non VC but thats only because I came by a cheap box at a market. Also, the one I use is a RC paper, from my experience most papers are about 4 ASA. Once the exposure is made and it is developed, I usually peel the paper backing off very slowly so as to allow shorter exposures at the printing stage. Of course they do curl severely once this is done. Also, I have heard that if VC is printed without a filter, it produces grade 2. Maybe this will be the same when it is used as a paper negative? Other APUG'ers may have a different opinion re VC papers? Good Luck! - David.

  3. #3
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    A VC paper will give you a different contrast image based on the color of the object being photographed. Therefore, you should not use a VC paper as a paper negative unless you want to see the odd effects it can produce.

    It is best to use a graded paper and select the desired contrast of graded paper. Most papers today are orthochromatic.

    PE

  4. #4
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Seeing Blokeman's post above inspired me to add this.

    I have exposed MGIV in-camera. It reproducded blue objects at one contrast, and green objects at another contrast. It also centered my MacBeth chart neutral scale when I used ISO 25 on my meter indicating an ISO speed of 25. Of course this is only approximate due to the high contrast of a print material (~2.5) vs a negative film (~0.6). Therefore a graded paper of about 1.0 would be better than a 'normal' grade.

    I used a 4x5 sheet of MGIV exposed in my speed graphic. I believe that I posted a scan of that in another thread.

    PE

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    paper negative question:

    Thanks P.E. ..... good that someone else with scientific knowledge shows up with solid information!! With things such as paper negs I'm very much a "feel" operator. Occasionally I regret not being able to retain the mathematical information needed. Do other paper neg. practitioners peel apart the picture (neg) as I do? The accidental damage done during this operation can add that jene sais quoi to an image.

  6. #6

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    I must admit I'm a practicing "Paper Negative" user. I will probably not earn any medals here, but the end results are very interesting. I really haven't experimented much with filtering in the field. I simply place Ilford MGIV RC in the film holder as you would with film. For a test run I'll pull the darkside about 1/2" and then expose for 2 seconds. Then put the darkside another 1/2" and expose another 2 seconds. Continuing to the end of the film holder. This being done on an 8X10 gives me a number test strips from 2 seconds upward for judging the exposure. I'm sure this is very elementary to most folks. I found on my 8x10 that 8 seconds at f/39 gave the best results on a sunny day. Indoors the same test would be more on the order of 4 minutes plus. I tried filtering once using a Kodak Polycontrast #3 but failed to adjust for increased exposure time. The results were underexposed. Color shift: Yellow objects appear as darker grey. Red and orange objects appear nearly jet black. Tan appears average grey.

    Here's a recent sample. It was sunny and all plant life was tan in color. The two "living" pine trees must have been dark green. Exposed for 8 seconds on Ilford MGIV RC Deluxe, Developed in Ilford PQ Universal 1:9 . . . http://www.wwwconnect.net/sony/no1a.jpg

    Crop from the above photo . . . to show actual detail available:
    http://www.wwwconnect.net/sony/no1b.jpg

    Others . . .
    http://www.wwwconnect.net/sony/Fruit1.jpg
    http://www.wwwconnect.net/sony/Fruit2.jpg
    http://www.wwwconnect.net/sony/Shroons.jpg

    Can you find the apple?
    http://www.wwwconnect.net/sony/Ajos.jpg

    This chair (below) is painted bright yellow. Only the reflection on the vinyl seat cover reflects the actual brightness. The seat cover is near white.
    http://www.wwwconnect.net/sony/chair.jpg

    These were all done in the last couple of months. I am now using Dektol with the MGIV paper. The blacks appear blacker, to me.

    To print an 8x10 for example you could contact print it, or as in this case scan it at 600 dpi (or higher), manipulate it, and then print it elsewhere.
    Last edited by DannL; 04-20-2006 at 11:53 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #7
    Charles Webb's Avatar
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    My Sincere thanks to all who responded to my "paper negative" question!
    I will take everything into consideration and slowly proceed into an area I have never been.

    John and DannL a special thanks for time an effort to help me learn this new
    (to me ) thing. DannL your examples are wonderful! They show as much detail and information with your paper negs as many of my photos on film do. I did find the apple. Next time move the apple just a bit further away from the banana, as it's tiny curved shadow caressing the side of the banana gave it's location away.


    Looking forward to trying printing paper rather than film!

    Charlie...........................

  8. #8

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    Paper negs

    Charlie, I use paper negs, on Azo grade 2-4 single and double weight, with the dw I have to scan and use photoshop and it saves a lot of time and hassle trying to print. Are you shooting 45 or 810? Also, I use brush agitation in VI dev. 1:3 x 3:00-5:00 depending on the subject. I have not tried selenium toning the neg, but will in the next few days. Also, if you use the scanner & PS, you don't have to peel the negs with rc paper. Pat
    [SIZE=2]Shadow Catcher[/SIZE]

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    Charlie,

    I have done this. Forte Semi Matte VC Fiber Base Paper
    Rate it at iso 10.
    Develop in Dektol 1:2.

    Then I contact print it.

    Works pretty cool.

    You can also use a wax I think parafin to soak the paperneg in to make it translucent. Anyway have fun it works!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    A VC paper will give you a different contrast image based on the color of the object being photographed. Therefore, you should not use a VC paper as a paper negative unless you want to see the odd effects it can produce.

    It is best to use a graded paper and select the desired contrast of graded paper. Most papers today are orthochromatic.

    PE
    What would happen if I used my VC gel filters in front of the lens/pinhole while using a VC paper? Other than reducing the effective ISO speed, could I produce different contrast negatives?

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