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  1. #21

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    You guys....leave me dumbfounded. I know you have been doing this for a while, but man!!! Does the NH4Cl show more, less or about the same hygroscopic qualities as LiCl? Which surprised me a bit when mixing the LiPd up, seem to just suck the water out of the air. This really is a never ending learning process isn't it.
    Mike C

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  2. #22

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    Mike,

    Since you asked... I did a simple comparison test today, and lithium is much more hygroscopic than ammonium. Not scientific, mind you, but a small pile of each produces a wet spot with the lithium in fairly quick order (in about 50-60% RH), but the ammonium seems to be fairly dry and unclumped still.

    In fact, I wonder is the ammonium is hygroscopic any more than the normal sodium is. They may be about the same.


    ---Michael
    www.mutmansky.com
    B&W photography in Silver, Palladium, and gum bichromate.

  3. #23

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    Michael,

    Thanks, after working with the LiCl, was afraid to ask about the NH4Cl...like you said...very hgroscopic. Appreciate the information.

    Mike
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mutmansky
    Mike,

    Since you asked... I did a simple comparison test today, and lithium is much more hygroscopic than ammonium. Not scientific, mind you, but a small pile of each produces a wet spot with the lithium in fairly quick order (in about 50-60% RH), but the ammonium seems to be fairly dry and unclumped still.

    In fact, I wonder is the ammonium is hygroscopic any more than the normal sodium is. They may be about the same.


    ---Michael
    Mike C

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by photomc
    You guys....leave me dumbfounded. I know you have been doing this for a while, but man!!! Does the NH4Cl show more, less or about the same hygroscopic qualities as LiCl? Which surprised me a bit when mixing the LiPd up, seem to just suck the water out of the air. This really is a never ending learning process isn't it.
    Ammonium Chloride is FAR less hydroscopic than Lithium. I have seen the LiCl basucally turn into a liquid. I have not seen anything of the kind with ammonium chloride.

    Eric

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    Michael,

    Why do you prefer ammonium chlroide?

    And would you post a mixing formula of ammonium chloride + palladium, or is it same as with sodium chloride?

    Sandy
    Sandy, The PdCl2 should be mixed at a 1 mole to 2 mole ratio with the Sodium, Ammonium, Lithium chlorides. ( as well as cesium, although rarely used) . The Pd mix is also use with the FO or AFO at a 2 to 1 mix. Although it needs to be 1.4M to .7M for the PD mix; at least that is the information in Ware paper that dates back to 1986. And While the paper is based on the AFO approach to printing, it rang bells the entire time I read it while I used the more traditional FO formula.

    I use 5g PdCl2 with 3.5 NaCl, 5g PdCl2 with 3.1 NH4Cl, and 5g PdCl2 with 2.6g LiCl. All sligtly higher than formula suggest to make sure there is adequate ions running around to mix properly

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