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Thread: Gumover VDB?

  1. #11
    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertP
    Don, Go to the Bostick and Sullivan web site. Go to technical papers. Scroll down to Sullivan's Substrate Gum Method. Hope this helps
    BTW, if you read the article, in the last paragraph or so Sullivan mentions,
    "I like to remount the print, after it is trimmed to the image area, on to a piece of the same paper it was made on. I had one student who had access to an etching press and she use a piece of plastic and made a platemark in the paper with the etching press and then mounted the print down in the platemark area and then overmatted it. This made an elegant presentation."

    If you have a vacuum easel you can create a faux platemark. This kind of presentation does look very elegant.
    Don Bryant

  2. #12
    RobertP's Avatar
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    Don. Just grind the registration pins down as Dick mentions then use a sheet of clear mylar over the negative to make up the rest of the registration pin height. I am curious to see if you print on a larger sheet of paper and just dry mount the outer area, say a couple of inches away from the image area but still have about 3-4 inches dry mounted all the way around. That way once the sheet is removed you could trim the dry mounted area off and it wouldn't be on the back of the image area. This would eliminate the need to dry mount it to another sheet of paper. Just a few thoughts about it. I may give it a try.

  3. #13
    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertP
    Don. Just grind the registration pins down as Dick mentions then use a sheet of clear mylar over the negative to make up the rest of the registration pin height.
    Two things here: Surely Dick didn't mean Mylar. I've never seen Mylar more than a few thousands <sp?> of an inch thick. If one grinds the pins, that would need to be done with care, I suppose. Never the less using a piece of lexan or glass would probably work just as well, especially when using a vacuum frame. Ithink I would prefer glass since it won't absorb UV like some plastics.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertP
    I am curious to see if you print on a larger sheet of paper and just dry mount the outer area, say a couple of inches away from the image area but still have about 3-4 inches dry mounted all the way around. That way once the sheet is removed you could trim the dry mounted area off and it wouldn't be on the back of the image area. This would eliminate the need to dry mount it to another sheet of paper. Just a few thoughts about it. I may give it a try.
    That won't work. the entire sheet needs to be immobile to help maintain the registration due to the expansion and contraction of the paper from moisture. Dick's suggestion to dry mount to another sheet of paper was just that a suggestion, though not a bad one, it does add more work to the whole process.

    At any rate I'll start looking for the pins locally, this is something I've been meaning to try for years. It would be great to make and finish gum overs in a day.

    Also one will have to have a means of supporting the print during development and I have a concern about being able to clear the print of dichromate when making gum overs since the amount of Am. di. used for those is so much more than used for straight gum.
    Don Bryant

  4. #14
    John_Brewer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donbga

    If you have a vacuum easel you can create a faux platemark. This kind of presentation does look very elegant.
    Thanks for the tip Don, I like that idea much.

    J
    ~John~
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  5. #15
    RobertP's Avatar
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    Don. In the article were talking about, under the paragraph "Exposure" Sullivan states that you may find the pins interfere with the print frame. This problem may be solved by: 1. placing a thick piece of mylar over the print to bring it up to the height of the pins. 2. grind down the pins. I don't know how much UV light clear mylar blocks but I wouldn't think it is anymore than lexan or glass for that matter. I've seen clear mylar 1/8" thick before. As far as mounting around the image. I was thinking in case of gum over pt/pd. Once the paper has been processed in pt/pd the image area dosen't change anywhere near as much as the paper does before processing. I just have a hard time putting dry mount tissue on a platinum print. Keep in mind once you take it off the substrate you have a print with a lot of stickum on the back so you have to mount it to something, be it another sheet of the same paper or a mount board. This stickum could also be a problem if you are using a translucent paper which not many do for gum I'm told. Others doing gum overs don't even dry mount and their registrations seem to be fine. It will be interesting to see what you come up with. Keep me posted.

  6. #16
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    Don, The reason I'm trying to find a way around drymounting the image area is I want to try this on a swiss made paper, Opaline. It prints beautifully in pt/pd and I want to try some gumovers with it. But it is a very translucent paper and I don't know what the effects of the dry mount tissue will be. I'll let you know how the first runs go.

  7. #17
    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertP
    Don, The reason I'm trying to find a way around drymounting the image area is I want to try this on a swiss made paper, Opaline. It prints beautifully in pt/pd and I want to try some gumovers with it. But it is a very translucent paper and I don't know what the effects of the dry mount tissue will be. I'll let you know how the first runs go.
    I know from reading his posts over the years Kerik Kouklis dry mounts vellum type papers to another sheet of paper for presentation so I don't think there would be a problem doing that.

    From my experience of printing on vellum myself I think you might find doing gum overs with this paper very difficult. But that is just a guess on my part since I've never tried it. Vellum papers might not make a good choice for straight gum or gum overs if the paper surface is too smooth. One would also need to consider or discover how the paper expands and contracts as some papers will change shape in one direction more than the the other even with pre-shrinking. Additionally it has been my experience that as the negative size increases the problem of re-registration increases.


    Good luck and let us know how it works.
    Don Bryant

  8. #18
    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brewer
    Thanks for the tip Don, I like that idea much.

    J
    I will also add, that making a plate mark this way has it's draw backs. If you don't make the same sized prints all of the time you will need to have various sized pieces of glass or plexi to make the plate mark.
    Don Bryant

  9. #19
    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donbga
    I know from reading his posts over the years Kerik Kouklis dry mounts vellum type papers to another sheet of paper for presentation so I don't think there would be a problem doing that.
    After posting I did recall that Kerik mentioned that he uses dry mount tissue purchased from Light Impressions since it has a neutral white color which doesn't conflict with the color of vellums he uses. I'm not sure what color the Opalline vellum is so I can understand that using dry mount tissue may be a show stopper.
    Don Bryant

  10. #20

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    Regarding registration: I once even wrote an article touching this topic.

    Generally, when printing 8x10, when I print up to three, may be four layers, I just use pre-shunk paper, fix the neg first with pins in order to re-use the pinholes, and then with adhesive tape.

    For more layers, or larger sizes, I find registration necessary. I know the description on the B+S website, but for a reason which I do not now remember, i couldn't make much use of it. I use glass- or aluminum sheets with holes drilled into to receive the needles at the corners of the neg, and I fix the paper with bone glue or starch, materials that keep the paper fixed in cold water but become soft in hot water.

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