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Thread: Gumover VDB?

  1. #1
    Monophoto's Avatar
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    Gumover VDB?

    I've been trying to teach myself some alternative processes, starting with VDB and gum. My experience with VDB has been very mixed - in general, the contrast is quite low, but occasionally, I am able to produce something that I am reasonably proud of.

    Inspired by experts like Scootermm and Kerik, I have also tried to add gum layers to the VDBs. The results have all been failures. I seems as though the application of the gum layer itself causes a further reduction in the inherent low contrast of the VDB.

    In addition, I have found that the gum doesn't want to clear completely.

    My questions: are these "problems" part of the mystique of gum that one has to perservere to overcome, or are they inherent characteristics of gumover VDB that makes that combination not practical?

    And why is it that my fingers keep wanting to type "bumover"?

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    scootermm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monophoto
    Inspired by experts like Scootermm and Kerik, I have also tried to add gum layers to the VDBs.
    whoa whoa whoa now.... no need to insult Kerik so.


    Id hardly call myself an expert in much of anything. Especially anything related to alt process.
    I have attempted VDB with Gum Over layers. Didnt seem to like each other. Not sure... maybe its the chemical make up of the combining of processes... but just wouldnt work for some reason.
    One thing I will suggest is trying pt/pd printing. You would really be suprised how "financially" workable it is. There is so much control you have over the prints, and so much ability to adjust that control for the gum overs that will eventually be combined with it. Plus youll find that negatives you thought you couldnt print in straight pt/pd will work wonderfully with 2 or even 3 layers of Gum Bichrom (or so Ive noticed)

    Just my thoughts. Im not knocking VDBs. I still make them and love the tone and final prints. But they need such tailored negatives to make a spot on nice print Ive found.

    hope some of that helps.

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    Not advisable. Dichromate is a silver bleach, so the (untoned) VDB-image is likely to get bleached (I experienced this once with salt prints)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukas Werth
    Not advisable. Dichromate is a silver bleach, so the (untoned) VDB-image is likely to get bleached (I experienced this once with salt prints)
    What if the VDB or Kallitype was toned in palladium?
    Don Bryant

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    Quote Originally Posted by donbga
    What if the VDB or Kallitype was toned in palladium?
    Could work. I mean to try this with kallitypes, but did not get round to it. I never did VDB, but with Kallitypes the silver really seems to be substituted by the noble metal - a fully toned image can no more be bleached.

    A problem I foresee is registration. Kallitypes, as I know them, are best printed with bone-dry paper, and require lengthy baths afterwards. I have so far not printed kallitypes on gelatinized paper, so I don't know whether this works. If it doesn't, it might be necessary to seize the paper with the kallitype already printed on it, which would further compromise registration. The solution: fix the paper on a glass pane, which, however, is quite time-consuming.

    What works beautifully is to overprint New Chrysotypes: they like gelatinized paper, and, for images with more print-out and dubdued colours, like higher humidities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukas Werth

    A problem I foresee is registration. Kallitypes, as I know them, are best printed with bone-dry paper, and require lengthy baths afterwards.
    Pre-shrink, the paper.

    It shouldn't be a problem doing gum over kallitypes. After the kalli is printed size the paper and then do the gum overs.

    This is more or less what I do for gum over palladium, so assuming the palladium toner displaces the silver then it should work.
    Don Bryant

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    Quote Originally Posted by donbga
    Pre-shrink, the paper.

    Pre-shrinking is a must, of course. In my experience it is still worthwhile to pay attention to the humidity of the paper. But you may be right - I hope so, because, as I mentioned, I mean to try it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukas Werth
    Pre-shrinking is a must, of course. In my experience it is still worthwhile to pay attention to the humidity of the paper. But you may be right - I hope so, because, as I mentioned, I mean to try it.
    FWIW, I try to maintain 50% ambient, but still there are times when I can't get perfect regiatration, which brings me to this question(s):

    Keith Taylor who does those marvelous tri-color gums adheres the printing paper with dry mount tissue to aluminun sheets (if my information is correct).

    Has anyone tried this method? and if so how does one register the image? With pins?

    Thanks,
    Don Bryant

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    RobertP's Avatar
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    Don, Go to the Bostick and Sullivan web site. Go to technical papers. Scroll down to Sullivan's Substrate Gum Method. Hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertP
    Don, Go to the Bostick and Sullivan web site. Go to technical papers. Scroll down to Sullivan's Substrate Gum Method. Hope this helps
    Yes I've read that article, I was hoping to get some info from someone that may have done this already, such as how to make the pins work in a vacuum easel, tips on pin placement, etc.

    Thanks,
    Don Bryant

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