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  1. #11

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    I have a compound that is useful in protecting silver image without toning (similar to Fujifilm Ag Guard but using a different compound), but it hasn't been tested with VDB. I called for collaboration but no one seems interested. What I need is several pieces of step wadge exposed and processed samples.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji View Post
    For assessing the degree of protection by selenium treatment, I'd use peroxide fuming test rather than bleach immersion test. Bleach immersion test is often HUGELY more severe than what is necessary to withstand the level of pollutants in the air in reasonably good storage condition. Peroxide fuming at 500-5000ppm level is still hugely severe, but the results can be interpretable.
    I am sure you are right. However, bleach immersion with R-4 shows that a palladium or platinum toned kallitype or VDB has stability that is for all practical purposes on a par with a regular palladium or platinum print. Immersion for up to 15 minutes results in almost no bleaching of the image. Immersion of a selenium toned kallitype or VDB, using the fairly weak dilutions that are necessary, results in considerable bleaching after just five minutes.

    Toning kallitypes or VDBs with platinum or palladium is not really very expensive. It is certainly far less expensive than making a regular palladium or platinum print. The stock solution is mixed with just 5ml per liter of a platinum or palladium solution #3 from B&S, or the eqivalent from Formulary, plus 5 grams of citric acid. Using a flat bottom tray one only needs about 25 ml of the stock solution to tone an 8X10 print. Given the fact that toning with palladium or platinum is relatively inexpensive, and is so clearly superior to selenium, I strongly recommend the use of these toners. Or gold also, since it provides similar protection for kallitype and VDB prints.

    Bear in mind that when you tone with palladium or plaitnum you are really getting a prnt that is physically virtually identical to a real palladium or platinum, since in toning the palladium or platinum actually replaces a high percentage of the silver metal.

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 10-27-2006 at 12:38 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #13
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    Hi,
    I'm going to jump into VDB and Kallitype. So frustrated to read and look at these beautiful prints, anyway...
    I will begin with VDB. One first question, Do you tone (gold or plat) before or after fixing ?
    Thanks,
    Guillaume

  4. #14
    Ole
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    Guillaume, I use Tetenal gold toner. Sometimes I tone before fixing, sometimes after. The result is slightly different unless toning to completion, in my experience. Usually I tone after fixing, even if the "original" advice is to tone before fixing.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  5. #15
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    Thanks Ole
    The only way is to go for it and do both... I need to plunge !

  6. #16

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    I never followed up on this thread, but I eventualy did get good results out of Selenium toning. I won't discuss the archival aspects of the thing, but as far as tone is concerned, I managed to get a nice toning (slight darkening of the darkest tones, slight change in hue toward something "neutral") without the bleaching by over-dilluting a selenium solution, and let it age for a day or so with the tray open.
    It seems that this "spends" the amonium (or whatever bleaching agent that creates the problem with toning Vandykes); afterward the toning is /very/ slow (about 5 minutes to tone a Vandyke "to completion") and I no longer notice any bleaching.

    This is using Fotospeed's Selenium Toner. I do the toning by first using the toner for normal FB prints, then nearly emptying the tray of the solution, and re-filling it with fresh water... Then I let the tray sit there until the following day.

    I know, not very scientific

  7. #17
    Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    What are you diluting the selenium at?

  8. #18

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    Well I'm sorry I have no precise numbers. I first do a strong-ish selenium for normal FB prints (Ilford paper, tough to tone), empty the 8x10 tray until there is maybe half-a-glass left, top it up with water, then let it open for a day or so...

    Next time I do it I'll measure it properly...

  9. #19
    Schlapp's Avatar
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    Viradon works on Vandykes and gives a lovely tone.

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