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  1. #1

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    Vandyke toning, or Agfa Sistan ?

    I've read lots and lots of pages saying that selenium toning will bleach the image, even after fixing... Some were even doubting it was doing any toning at all...

    I could not find the components to make Gold toner easily, and platinium/paladium will be for when I have the process sorted out, later on..

    So I was thinking of using just Agfa Sistan as a preservative to prevent too quick a degradation. Is it a good idea with Vandykes ? Any alternative ? Any suggestion on how/when to apply the Sistan ? Any gotchas ?

  2. #2
    Petzi's Avatar
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    Agfa Viradon is also an option.
    If you're not taking your camera...there's no reason to travel. --APUG member bgilwee

  3. #3

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    So, I'm surprised there are no opinions on APUG about this; the previous threads had plenty on selenium; but nothing definitive, I was hopping to get a clearer view on the dust had settled on the few other, old ,threads...

    Anyone care to pinch in for Selenium ? Sandy King recommends it somehow in her article on alternate photography, but there are no mention of the bleaching effects or any way around it...

  4. #4
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    There is no reason to not tone with selenium. It is not my favorite, but I do so on occasion, after fixing in plain hypo bath. Bleaching has not been a problem for me.

    Jim
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Films NOT Dead - Just getting fixed![/FONT]

  5. #5
    Jim Noel's Avatar
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    By the way, Sandy King is very much a male.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Films NOT Dead - Just getting fixed![/FONT]

  6. #6

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    I wouldn't use Sistan for this purpose. Fuji Ag Guard is a better choice. (They have very different active ingredients.)

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    By the way, Sandy King is very much a male.
    Well, I had no way of knowing that, my apologies

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by buze View Post
    Well, I had no way of knowing that, my apologies
    No problem. Females with the name of Sandy outnumber males by about 10:1, in my experience, so you made a reasonable supposition.

    As for the use of selenium to tone VDBs, I do not recommend it. You have to tone at such high dilutions to avoid bleaching that I doubt very much that much is given in the way of long term archival qualities. I don't know this for an absolute fact so if you selenium tone you might want to judge the results by bleaching with something like R-4. If the print bleaches considerabley after about 5-10 minutes you can be sure than toning with selenium is not effective. I tried it and found this to be so, but others may find something differnt.

    My opinion is that one is much better served with VDB and kallitype to tone with gold, palladium or platinum. These metals replace gold to a very high percentage and provide great archival qualities to the print. I know that some would like to use selenium for reasons of economy, but this is a false saving IMO.


    Sandy King

  9. #9

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    For assessing the degree of protection by selenium treatment, I'd use peroxide fuming test rather than bleach immersion test. Bleach immersion test is often HUGELY more severe than what is necessary to withstand the level of pollutants in the air in reasonably good storage condition. Peroxide fuming at 500-5000ppm level is still hugely severe, but the results can be interpretable.

  10. #10

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    Well the problem is half-solved, Silverprint couldn't source the Agfa Sistan anyway.. I did get some selenium and I might experiment a bit; from the articles I've seen it also changes to tone of the print slightly so it might be of limited interest, even if it doesn't help the archival...

    I'm not ready to do the "noble metal" toning, Gold Chloride is really hard to get by it seems, and the pla/pala is not in my budget at the moment.

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