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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post
    Actually, I think there is a growing body of evidence of the deleterious effects of "excessive" computer usage (including gaming etc.). Most have dealt with the negative mental heath effects (e.g. aggression, depression, obsessive-compulsive behavior etc.).
    Dear George,

    Yes, but are people confusing cause and effect? Is it only aggrerssive, depressive obsessive-compulsives who would WANT to do this sort of thing?

    Cheers,

    R.

  2. #12
    jovo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPablo View Post
    Perhaps the bottom line is avoiding legal liability. But at the same time if there is a risk of harm to the consumer, then as a consumer you want the opportunity to make an informed choice. For example, if you have chronic hepatitis B, then it's really in your best interest to avoid a second cause of hepatocellular carcinoma. It's easy to be cynical about our very litigious culture in the USA, and being in medicine I'm as cynical as anyone about it. But think as a consumer advocate for a second, and you'll see that informed decision-making really is an expectation that we all share, and if there is a known risk inherent in some product, we have the right to know.

    Interesting and informative post. I would amend my statement to be much less absolute then. But with all you've stated, perhaps it would make the best sense to make warnings more complete by speaking to the greater degree of risk for those who may be most sensitive as well as the general user.
    John Voss

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
    Yes, but are people confusing cause and effect? Is it only aggrerssive, depressive obsessive-compulsives who would WANT to do this sort of thing?
    I DON'T WANT TO, I HAVE TO!

    WHY THE HECK DO YOU THINK I'M DEPRESSED?!





    (No offense intended to any sufferers of any of the above conditions, which are very real and very serious.)
    The destination is important, but so is the journey

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshverd View Post
    I am new to handcolouring and really excited about giving it a try. I ordered a pack of Mashall's photo oils. They arrived, and upon reading the information packet contained within the box there was the following message:

    "Warning:this product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer(and birth defects) or other reproductive harm."

    I was shocked. Good thing I live in Texas...

    But on a serious note, does anyone know what "chemical" they speak of? This was a little starter set that contained the following:

    9 photo oils
    1 tube extender
    1 bottle P.M. solution

    I imagine it is the cadmium colours, but am unsure. The P.M. solution looked suspicious until I found out it was just D-limonene and vegetable oils.

    And how invasive are we talking here? I'm not planning on eating the colours. So my worry is there are fumes involved? You tell me...

    Thanks,
    Josh
    Josh,

    Oil paints, as well as acrylics and watercolors, use certain compunds that have known health hazards, but generaly speaking, as long as you plan to follow through with your commitment not to consume the paints, you will likely be just fine. If you are very concerned about it, wear gloves when working with these paints.

    Many manufacturers are now telling what compounds they use in their paints, but for a long time this was not the norm. Most people kept their fomulas close, like many photographic formulas, in order to maintain their ability to compete and to make it harder for others to copy their best formulas. One of the best sources for information on what goes in any given manufacturers paints is that manufacturer, as most colors could use any number of differnt components, depending on the quality of the end result. If asked, I *believe* that a company will at least give you an MSDS for their products, which will at least let you know what is in there, if not the quantity.

    Metals are common in art paints, some of which are kind of nasty if you were to get them into your body. Oils paint use an oil - and there are a large number of different oils that could be used - and turpentine, or related compund, as a transport for the pigments and dyes. This is what you smell when using the product, undoubtably with some influence of the pigments and/or dyes, but mostly the oil and turpentine. If you would like to know more about how oils are made and used, as well as a little primer on risks associtated with oil paints, locate a copy of "The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques" by Ralph Mayer (ISBN:0670837016)

    - Randy

  5. #15
    DrPablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jovo View Post
    Interesting and informative post. I would amend my statement to be much less absolute then. But with all you've stated, perhaps it would make the best sense to make warnings more complete by speaking to the greater degree of risk for those who may be most sensitive as well as the general user.
    In some cases that does happen. Like with aspartame (Nutrasweet) -- there is a genetic disease called PKU (phenylketonuria), in which infants and young children with this disease are usually completely normal, but they can develop mental retardation if exposed to aspartame early in life or during fetal development. We screen all babies for the disease now. So children who have it, and pregnant women who carry it (and might be having a child with it) need to avoid this chemical. If you look on the bottle of diet soft drinks, you'll see a specific warning for people with PKU.

    As for this one chemical I've discussed in the Marshall oils, the problem (that I gather from the abstract) is that the entirety of the risk isn't nearly so well understood or defined. So while certain groups may be at particular risk, that doesn't mean that the general population is at no risk whatsoever; and it's also impossible to give a warning for every possible risk group.

    For example, the abstract highlights the associations with renal cell carcinoma (twice as common in smokers), hepatocellular carcinoma (most commonly found in people with chronic hep B, chronic hep C, and alcoholism), and leukemia (no identified risk factor for the vast majority of people who have it). Throw in all the other risk factors I haven't named (like family history) and probably 1000 other things I can't think of, and you have a warning label that's too long to read and too short to be comprehensive.

    Finally, as mentioned above, a warning label can't go into exhaustive detail. But what it can do, if you're curious, is afford you the opportunity to contact the company, find out which chemicals they're using, get access to the MSDS (material safety data sheet), and through whatever means (including your primary physician or an occupational health specialist) get more info about the chemicals and their clinical associations.
    Last edited by DrPablo; 01-15-2007 at 10:14 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Paul

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshverd View Post
    I am new to handcolouring and really excited about giving it a try. I ordered a pack of Mashall's photo oils. They arrived, and upon reading the information packet contained within the box there was the following message:

    "Warning:this product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer(and birth defects) or other reproductive harm."

    I was shocked. Good thing I live in Texas...

    But on a serious note, does anyone know what "chemical" they speak of? This was a little starter set that contained the following:

    9 photo oils
    1 tube extender
    1 bottle P.M. solution

    I imagine it is the cadmium colours, but am unsure. The P.M. solution looked suspicious until I found out it was just D-limonene and vegetable oils.

    And how invasive are we talking here? I'm not planning on eating the colours. So my worry is there are fumes involved? You tell me...

    Thanks,
    Josh

    Everyone is so careful about that particular warning here in California that even the restaurants and grocery stores have a sign with the same warning or something to the effect of "Products in this building may contain chemicals known to cause cancer or birth defects".
    Store, gas stations, laundry buildings, manufactuing facilities, etc. Almost all of them use the same generic little white sign with black lettering about 7 x 9 inches.

  7. #17

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    Consider the source - California. Watch two hours of local prime time television in the state of California and count the number of advertisements by ambulance chasers and you will understand why you see so many warnings. Oxalic acid used in Pt/Pd printing can be deadly in sufficient quantities. Spinach contains oxalic acid but you would have to eat 12 pounds of spinach to receive a lethal dose. Do you know how much 12 pounds of spinach is? Your entire digestive system could not contain it. Treat all chemicals with respect and use the proper protection. But in most cases, the stuff on the shelf in your local garden store is far worse than most darkroom chemicals. Just take a wiff and you can smell the danger. I live in Ohio. We still have ambulance chasers but not as many and fewer disclaimers.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb6350 View Post
    Everyone is so careful about that particular warning here in California that even the restaurants and grocery stores have a sign with the same warning or something to the effect of "Products in this building may contain chemicals known to cause cancer or birth defects".
    Store, gas stations, laundry buildings, manufactuing facilities, etc. Almost all of them use the same generic little white sign with black lettering about 7 x 9 inches.
    Yes, that totally scared me when I went to CA for the first time. We staid at a Best Western and saw this sign there too. In Germany, if you read such a sign, you'd better turn and run - and I had to learn to ignore that in CA.

    Antje

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