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  1. #21
    Ole
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    There were lots of albumen paper producers!

    If you should happen to look through a 1900's German cookbook, wou will find a lot of recipes using egg yolks only. That was because of the surplus from the Albumen Paper industry!

    There were also collodion papers, platinum papers, arrowroot papers, and whatever not...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    I like the term hand-coated as well, and use it a lot to describe my own work, which is 100% hand coated, either in carbon, kallitype, or Pt./Pd. However, hand-coated excludes many processes that we normally include as "alternative," many of which are seen in Rexer's book. That would include POP, any of the emulsion transfers, carbon (if using manufactured tissue), photogravure (same reasoning as carbon), pinhole images made on factory-coated papers, photograms on factory-coated papers, etc, etc.

    Again, the major question here is "what processes are included"? I think we could all agree that no one term is perfect. However, in my estimation the term "alternative" is less imperfect than any of the others if we include both historical and contemporary processes, excluding inkjet printing which is now the "standard and ubiquitious" printing process, even for artists. I agree with PE in that silver gelatin, whether regular VC paper or POP, is an alternative processes.

    Sandy King
    Does not hand-coated refer to today's method of making Pt/Pd, Salt and other processes? Before WW1 there were many factories that had coating and rolling facilities for these emulsions (many were available commercially); as is POP today - and that is not hand-coated.

    Maybe "historical process" is a better description? As these were being used before silver gelatin came along and they fell by the wayside

    Mike

  3. #23

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    I was following the discussion with interest, and would like to add a few considerations. I don't want to vote for a certain term, as I really think this is very much a matter of perspective also, and how a term is defined/used in a discourse.
    However, all these terms, archaic, alternative, hand-coated, post-factory, aim at distinguishing our practices from those which are considered mainstream, common, "non-noble" (a German name for an alternative print is "Edeldruck", "noble print"). This points to a particular characteristic of the photographic medium as such, one which I am inclined to view somewhat critically: throughout much of its history, it has been tied to notions of technical progress, and was woven into an industrial infrastructure *which frequently (at least to a considerable extent) defined its artistic expressions* - think, for instance, of the pervading influence of the advertisement culture.
    This is what makes us looking at "archaic" with unease: of course, I don't see in these practices some snobbish time passing, like racing with vintage cars or other such rubbish. But do I really have to tie my notion of art to that of (technological) progress? Other strands of art use historical quotations and borrowings with much more ease: in painting, the dedicated use of ancient techniques by many surrealists, patterns of novels (like the figure of the fool or the imp), ample quotations in music (few people think the violin or the piano are outmoded/obsolete/archaic).
    I find quoting in art a fruitful way of expression, and I try to weave notions into my pictures which go back to before the rise of "modernity's imperatives", as they were formulated by Paul Strand and the group f64. I try by no means to copy or recreate, say, pictoralist photographs, but I found myself inspired looking back to them and seeing what they were looking for, ways they tried to explore.
    So, whatever expression you would prefer - I for once can live with using several of them as I see them fit in a certain context - I would think it useful to entail a notion of not only difference, but also that of a challenge to ingrained, but limiting perceptions of the medium.

  4. #24

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    Hi all,

    Just a quick note to say Thank You to everyone who helped with my dissertation. I've now handed it in and expect the results some time in April.

    If anyone wants a copy, i can e-mail it out to you or via PM. The full file is just under 12MB as a M$ Word file with images. I can remove the images - most of which are copyright to others and are well-known anyway - to make a smaller file. I'll be posting it without pics on my webspace temporarily during the Easter hols.

    The copyright issue is the reason i'm not posting it on the forum.

    Cheers,
    kevs
    testing...

  5. #25

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    Hi all,

    My dissertation is now online at:
    http://www.southernsky.fsnet.co.uk/dis_chap1.rtf
    and
    http://www.southernsky.fsnet.co.uk/dis_chap2.rtf

    The dissertation is in two parts, both in Rich Text format which can be read by almost any word processor. I have removed all images to save webspace and for copyright reasons, the titles are still in there. The Contents page will be inaccurate because of this.

    I have uploaded these files for general interest and to say 'thank you' to all the Apug posters who helped me with my research. Your rock! :-)

    Cheers,
    kevs
    testing...

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